Leak troubleshooting and repair

[Axhammer]

I just took the ring off, the pool wall is deteriorated and missing in some areas. Check the pictures. In the picture with the ring still attached I have a white arrow pointing the direction the dye was going as it exited. Is there an adhesive that O can use to build up the area that is missing? I need to make it flat again so the ring can seal the liner against the wall/fitting.

Open to any suggestions...

Thanks!

 

[duraleigh]

Is that a concrete wall or steel?

 

[Axhammer]

Is that a concrete wall or steel?

I'm not sure what it is, when the light is on at night the trowel pattern is visible, so something was spread with a trowel. Whatever the composition is, it's crumbling, I don’t think its concrete...

 

[waste]

Steel wall, the inlet is shot not only is the gasket missing but I see hairline cracks on the inlet fitting :!:

SP 1408 will replace it, but you'll need to tunnel under the deck to gain access to the bulkhead nut that Kevin was talking about and do a little replumbing to reconnect the new inlet fitting. The changeout shouldn't be too difficult , but you do need access to the back of the pool wall. Being sure to match up the screw holes is probably the most difficult part - of course cutting the deck and digging out the fitting kind - o sucks, but that's just time and labor

I still believe that you've found the source of the leak

You have 2 choices on the replacement inlet the 1408 and the 1411 - either should work - I'll be by to help if you need more detailed advice as you attack this :-D

 

[Axhammer]

I guess its hard to tell in the pictures, but the poolwall is missing, deteriorated and gone in some areas...

If its a steel wall pool, I dont see any steel or rust...

 

[duraleigh]

This question is for Ted more than Ax.......

Ted, it appears the fitting has pulled away from the steel wall and the wall rusted out.

Would it be possible to make that repair from inside the pool? I'm thinking to drop the liner below the repair or, if that's not possible to make an x-cut in the liner to give him about a 6-8 inch work area.

Assuming he could be successful doing the above, could the repair to the wall be made with bondo or any other 2-part epoxy?

Ax, I'm out of my league in that I have never attempted this. I hate digging and personally would avoid it at all costs. It may end up being the only way to make a good repair, tho.

 

[waste]

Please forgive me if I get the SP 1408 and the SP 1411 fittings reversed (It's been ~ a year since I've seen the "old school" ones (which I'm referring to as the 1411).

I don't see the wall deterioration in the pics :? I DO see a missing, or deteriorated gasket behind the liner!

The SP 14XX goes in from the front of the panel and needs no gasket where it penetrates the pool wall (the liner and the black gasket keep the water from getting in there )

Unless they drilled the hole for the return fitting, there should be a notch for the new one to fit into correctly, with the screw holes lined up properly

If the wall is deteriorated so much that you can't get a new fitting in, let me know and I'll tell you how to patch it and cut in a new return :-D

As said, from the pics, it looks like the entire inlet fitting is shot and you need to replace it - which will require access to the back side of the panel.

Can you try putting a magnet on the wall just under the fitting to see if you do, indeed, have a steel walled pool? If you have steel, you can patch that and hole drill another opening in it to accept a new fitting

For right now, the water is down enough in the pool to make any repair (we just have to figure out what you need to do ) - I'm more than willing to 'walk' you through this - I just need to know exactly what we're dealing with

 

[X-PertPool]

Please forgive me if I get the SP 1408 and the SP 1411 fittings reversed (It's been ~ a year since I've seen the "old school" ones (which I'm referring to as the 1411).

I don't see the wall deterioration in the pics :? I DO see a missing, or deteriorated gasket behind the liner!

The SP 14XX goes in from the front of the panel and needs no gasket where it penetrates the pool wall (the liner and the black gasket keep the water from getting in there )

Unless they drilled the hole for the return fitting, there should be a notch for the new one to fit into correctly, with the screw holes lined up properly

If the wall is deteriorated so much that you can't get a new fitting in, let me know and I'll tell you how to patch it and cut in a new return :-D

As said, from the pics, it looks like the entire inlet fitting is shot and you need to replace it - which will require access to the back side of the panel.

Can you try putting a magnet on the wall just under the fitting to see if you do, indeed, have a steel walled pool? If you have steel, you can patch that and hole drill another opening in it to accept a new fitting

For right now, the water is down enough in the pool to make any repair (we just have to figure out what you need to do ) - I'm more than willing to 'walk' you through this - I just need to know exactly what we're dealing with

waste in the picture you'll notice threads on the return faceplate this means its a different style return faceplate [I can't remember the model #] that is flat on the back so their are no "notches" nor nipples to lineup, but these plates do tend to crack less from what I've seen compared to the plate with the notches/nipples

Anyways you might be able to get away with pulling the liner away from the wall and scraping the rest of the rubber gasket away and replacing that, reattach everything and then use some plastaid on your finger when it becomes a thick past form, (apply a very light coating of jacks lube or wd-40 to the faceplate incase you get some plastaid on the threads, regardless if you do ruin the threads of the faceplate they are replaceable.

 

[Axhammer]

Well, I cleaned it up and put it back together with a couple new gaskets and some marine grade caulk. This morning the rapair looked like it might work so I turned on the water, and started filling the pool. Today after work the water level is above the return outlets, so I did a dye test to see if it leaking. So far so good, no water going into the outlet or between the liner and gasket like it was before.

I'll keep everyone updated, Thanks for all the replys...

If the leak continues, I'm cutting concrete and replacing the fitting, and I'll patch the pool wall if required...

How hard it is to drop the liner in one corner like this? What are the procedures???

 

[waste]

waste in the picture you'll notice threads on the return faceplate this means its a different style return faceplate [I can't remember the model #] that is flat on the back so their are no "notches" nor nipples to lineup, but these plates do tend to crack less from what I've seen compared to the plate with the notches/nipples

Kevin, it is an SP 1411, with the receiving (female) threads in the faceplate not the body. When I spoke of the notch, I was referring to the body fitting into a pre-stamped hole in the panel

Now that we've dealt with that, let me amend some of my previous advice - You probably can't just switch over to an SP 1408 because the liner is already cut and the screw holes don't quite match up for a 1408 faceplate and a 1411 Also, if you move the return, you'll have to patch the liner as well as the steel and that wouldn't be pretty Luckily the other live braincell kicked in and I can still tell you how to replace the old fitting with a new SP 1411

As a quick primer on the conditions you'll need to do the replacement - you'll have to take the water back down below the return, how much further down depends on if the wall is viable or not. If you need to do this, I'll get more detailed and tell you what tools and materials you'll need :-D You'll have to be prepared to do a little plumbing and steel cutting. You're handy with the camera and know how to post pics, that will help tremendousely!

Please keep us informed as to the success of your fix

 

[Axhammer]

The fix is holding water, with no loss overnight...

Wha are the procedures to drop the liner in one corner?

Thanks!

 

[waste]

The fix is holding water, with no loss overnight...

Wha are the procedures to drop the liner in one corner?

Thanks!

Please tell me what you mean by "drop the liner in one corner"

 

[waste]

 

[Axhammer]

It's a beautifull Saturday morning here in NC. Its gonna be in the low 90's today, the swimming pool will be working overtime. My pool has not leaked since I replaced the gaskets at the return jet, making me a happy camper...

If this repair ever leaks again, I'm pretty sure I will drop the liner in this area to see what is going on, allowing a more permenent repair. The return line jet gasket that was leaking, (and replaced) was in the shallow end corner adjacent to the steps. My question about dropping the liner in the corner, is really about the method used to lift the liner far enough to disengage it, so it can be lowered far enough to expose the gasket area. How can this be done without damage, allowing reinstallation after the repair?

My pool is crystal clear now, it is much easier to keep clean now that I am not constantly adding water. I plan on paying close attention the the chemical balance now and utilizing the BBB method to get through this summer. A chlorine generator is something I am considering for next year...

Thanks everyone, I now have a Troublre Free Pool !!!

 

[waste]

Ax, I'm happy that the new gasket is holding and you're able to use the pool on such a glorious summer day! :sunny:

You don't need to 'drop' the liner to do a replacement (usually). All you need is to be able to get the liner to come away from the wall far enough to remove the old inlet and slide a new one back in. As I said before, in the pics, I can see that the inlet fitting has developed hairline cracks - it may last another 5 years or it could fail next week :x Don't sweat it until you have to Whenever it comes time to replace it, we'll be here to tell you what to do and how to do it

ENJOY THAT NON LEAKING POOL :!: