Why the problem with green water for many of those doing the conversion?

[anthonypool89]

Hi,

As a baq pool owner, and not yet ready to convert - though based on how the pool looks so far this season I may be getting closer - I found it interesting that, in reading some of these conversion threads, so many people seem to report having green water. I've used baq products for many years and, while I've had the usual slime / water mold issues, I've never had green water with the exception of 3 years ago - and I know other people in the area reported the same thing - it cleared up to blue after a few days. At any rate, i was just curious about the green water situation since I've never read that as being one of the complaints about baquacil. Last season my pool was exceptionally clear and so I was riding pretty high in the saddle relative to how it can work with baq. However, this season is different. The water looks, feels, and smells fine, but is just extremely cloudy. Oxidizer levels are holding, and so forth. It's very depressing know what the pool can look like and seeing what it is now. At times like this I do consider the conversion and have been reading about it - just cannot bring myself to accept the idea of dumping bleach in the pool though.

 

[pookiesunshine]

the green water comes during the conversion and ends when it is done. i finally got tired of fighting the increasing frequency of white mold/pink slime occurrences on baq. enough!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

At times like this I do consider the conversion and have been reading about it - just cannot bring myself to accept the idea of dumping bleach in the pool though.

And yet you'll put Poly(iminoimidocarbonyl-iminoimidocarbonyl-iminohexamethylene) Hydrochloride (PHMB) in your pool? Or hydrogen peroxide?? Or N-Alkyl-N-benzyl-N,N-dimethylammonium chloride (the linear quad Baquacil algaestat)?? Or, if using DMX, 4,4-Dimethyl-2,5-dioxoimidazolidine (DMH) ???

I'm not trying to be snarky, but don't you think it's a little bit odd to be concerned about adding bleach to a pool, which is nothing more than sodium hypochlorite, sodium hydroxide, salt and water, when you are adding an organic chemical stew to your pool? And one which does not work very well? And one that costs 10X more than using chlorine?

Despite all of the foolish, pseudo-scientific hype that parades around as "information" on the internet, chlorine is not some monstrous chemical that is causing all of the ills in the world. There's a lot of foolish notions out on the internet about toxicology, chemicals and how the human body works. I'm not saying that's your particular motivation, but it goes without saying that if water chlorination did not come into existence, the world's population would far smaller, sicker and constantly ravaged by simple, easily curable diseases. Chlorination of water is the safest and most effective way of stoping the spread of transmissible disease and allows people all over the world to have access to clean and healthy drinking water. So for me, I'd much rather swim in (properly) chlorinated pool water than some chemical soup that performs far, far worse in terms of sanitation...

Either way, TFP will be here to help when you finally get tired of baquacil....

PS - Oh, and if you don't like adding bleach to a pool, then install a salt-water chlorine generator and the chlorine will be generated in low doses throughout the pumping cycle....

 

[Veccster]

Salt is the way to go. Very easy to maintain, feels great on the skin, doesn't have that heavy chlorine smell. And did I mention that it's easy to maintain!

 

[Husky25]

Hi,

As a baq pool owner, and not yet ready to convert - though based on how the pool looks so far this season I may be getting closer - I found it interesting that, in reading some of these conversion threads, so many people seem to report having green water. I've used baq products for many years and, while I've had the usual slime / water mold issues, I've never had green water with the exception of 3 years ago - and I know other people in the area reported the same thing - it cleared up to blue after a few days. At any rate, i was just curious about the green water situation since I've never read that as being one of the complaints about baquacil. Last season my pool was exceptionally clear and so I was riding pretty high in the saddle relative to how it can work with baq. However, this season is different. The water looks, feels, and smells fine, but is just extremely cloudy. Oxidizer levels are holding, and so forth. It's very depressing know what the pool can look like and seeing what it is now. At times like this I do consider the conversion and have been reading about it - just cannot bring myself to accept the idea of dumping bleach in the pool though.

We lost power after Hurricane Irene and my water turned green. I dumped a starter dose of Oxidizer in my pool and it was fine in 24 hours (back then, Namco was selling cases of Blue Shield Oxidizer for about $27, pre tax). A year later I got the mold problem, post liner replacement. The Baq folks told my to dose the water with double the starter amount of oxidizer. Naturally it didn't work, so they said to do it again and then add a starter dose every week. You know what they say about the definition of insanity, so when the water was cloudy the next spring, I looked more seriously into conversion (see the link in my signature. It has pictures). My pool never really turned green during the conversion. Just a shade of yellowish/beige. Sort of like unfiltered apple cider vinegar. two days later, it started to clear up.

The water was a deep forest green at the beginning of last year, but a diligent SLAM cleared it up in about 18 hours; Ready to swim (except for temperature) within a week.

The two things that sold me on my conversion, and this website in particular, were 1) Cost; and 2) guidance. I was spending many multiples in terms dollars and time for the first 6-7 years of pool ownership than I do now. I now spend about $12/week on chlorine (a case of Oxidizer now approaches $40. I don't even want to know what a 1/2 gal. of Sanitizer costs) and no more than a few minutes a day when I'm not vacuuming.

Re: the highlighted part of your post, liquid chlorine and bleach have the same chemical make-up. Don't call it bleach, if it makes you feel better. My wife has the same problem. So I call it liquid chlorine around her (it's the little things, you know?). Also, wear white when you are treating the pool, wash your hands, and don't wear your shoes inside immediately after you're done.

- - - Updated - - -

Salt is the way to go. Very easy to maintain, feels great on the skin, doesn't have that heavy chlorine smell. And did I mention that it's easy to maintain!

Heavy chlorine smell indicates contaminants. Clear clean water will not have that smell.

 

[Leebo]

One of the main reasons we ran into green in the past were low Oxidizer levels. The hydrogen peroxide gets consumed very quickly using their system and Algae takes hold. If one could keep the peroxide levels up there I suspect pool water quality would be greatly improved, but with peroxide costing $18 a gallon it becomes difficult to afford.

 

[Husky25]

One of the main reasons we ran into green in the past were low Oxidizer levels. The hydrogen peroxide gets consumed very quickly using their system and Algae takes hold. If one could keep the peroxide levels up there I suspect pool water quality would be greatly improved, but with peroxide costing $18 a gallon it becomes difficult to afford.

It was not just the Oxidizer (peroxide). The Santitizer/Algistate cost double that for a 1/2 gallon and the recommended algaecide causes foam, which makes the pool uninviting. Truth be told, BQ seems to treat symptoms rather than the the underlying cause.

 

[domct203]

And yet you'll put Poly(iminoimidocarbonyl-iminoimidocarbonyl-iminohexamethylene) Hydrochloride (PHMB) in your pool? Or hydrogen peroxide?? Or N-Alkyl-N-benzyl-N,N-dimethylammonium chloride (the linear quad Baquacil algaestat)?? Or, if using DMX, 4,4-Dimethyl-2,5-dioxoimidazolidine (DMH) ???

I'm not trying to be snarky, but don't you think it's a little bit odd to be concerned about adding bleach to a pool, which is nothing more than sodium hypochlorite, sodium hydroxide, salt and water, when you are adding an organic chemical stew to your pool? And one which does not work very well? And one that costs 10X more than using chlorine?....

And Matt drives it home......

I could never understand how Baqua products ever got started....... "Let's see mister pool shopper, we have two choices for you as far as water sanitation. First up, chlorine, the sanitizer chosen the world over to keep drinking water safe for consumption. Next is this Baqua product, that has a list of chemical names of which most you can't pronounce."

 

[anthonypool89]

Matt,

I did not sense anything snarky in your response. Quite the contrary, you raise some excellent points. I will say though, that my wife and I have always liked the feel of the pool water treated with biguanide moreso than chlorine. It just feels softer and gentler on the skin and hair. Other family members who have swam in our pool, in comparison with chlorinated pools, have mentioned also that it feels different. Perhaps the issue I refer to is the result of not properly maintained chlorination in some of the pools I've experienced. I can just recall so many hotel pools, etc. where I came back to the room after swimming and still smelled like the pool - let alone trying to get the smell out of my swim trunks. Again, I have no doubt that improper maintenance is a factor. When I DID used to use chlorine, I was always told that if the pool smells like chlorine in reality it is an excess build-up of chloramines. What many people interpret as the pool "needing less chlorine" is actually the reverse - that it doesn't have enough. Anyway, that's what I remember from my experience with it. Have not used chlorine in probably 17+ years or so. I did not like working with those chlorine sticks at all, and once I got into the chlorine demand situation that was when I decided on some other option.

Anyway, the water is gradually clearing now with increased filtration time. Another maintenance dose of Oxidizer tomorrow, followed by CDX, followed by Aqua Finesse tablets and I should be good to go for a weekend party. I will keep everything in mind going forward. I guess I have to try to get away from being stuck on recalling the bad experiences I had with chlorine. A friend of mine who also has a baq pool (we switched at the same time) went through the exact same things I did with chlorine. I don't believe he has any intentions of going back to it.

 

[tim5055]

It just feels softer and gentler on the skin and hair. Other family members who have swam in our pool, in comparison with chlorinated pools, have mentioned also that it feels different. Perhaps the issue I refer to is the result of not properly maintained chlorination in some of the pools I've experienced. I can just recall so many hotel pools, etc. where I came back to the room after swimming and still smelled like the pool - let alone trying to get the smell out of my swim trunks. Again, I have no doubt that improper maintenance is a factor. When I DID used to use chlorine, I was always told that if the pool smells like chlorine in reality it is an excess build-up of chloramines.

You have hit the nail on the head. Poor "feeling" chlorine pools are the result of following an outdated industry standard and the buildup of chloramines. Even when I had CYA 250+ and kept my FC at 20ish I never smelled chlorine and as long as the pH is in line (mine rises because of a waterfall) it's a smooth as silk and easy on the skin and eyes.

Those that add borates along with chlorine describe an even nicer feeling. I won't use borates due to a German Shepherd Dog who loves to swim and thinks the pool is his water bowl.

You have been happy with what you use and we understand that.

 

[anthonypool89]

You have hit the nail on the head. Poor "feeling" chlorine pools are the result of following an outdated industry standard and the buildup of chloramines. Even when I had CYA 250+ and kept my FC at 20ish I never smelled chlorine and as long as the pH is in line (mine rises because of a waterfall) it's a smooth as silk and easy on the skin and eyes.

Those that add borates along with chlorine describe an even nicer feeling. I won't use borates due to a German Shepherd Dog who loves to swim and thinks the pool is his water bowl.

You have been happy with what you use and we understand that.

Well..."happy" with what I've been using is probably not a totally accurate description. I was not completely happy with chlorine, and obviously over the years I've fought my share of battles with biguanide too. A more carefree version of 'happy' might well be when the day comes that I downsize into a 55+ community that has a pool that I can enjoy swimming in without having to do absolutely anything in terms of maintenance! Sometimes that scenario sounds more and more appealing!

The past 2 seasons have been pretty good (last one excellent). I do think that the deterioration of the plaster prior to the '14 renovation had much to do with the appearance of the water and some of the problems I encountered. The plaster was so pitted on the bottom of the pool that it somewhat resembled a coral reef in that the algae, etc. just got caught in all the little pockmarked and worn areas. Every time I used to brush I know I was scraping away more layers of worn plaster, causing so much cloudiness and also unending filter pressure increase. It got to the point that by the end of the season it was almost a relief to be done and close it up since I used to probably clean the filter and change DE several times a month or more. Undoubtedly the water mold and slime also found those nitches in the plaster that made it almost impossible to brush it out of. When my daughter used to have swim parties, the cloudier the water was the better since then nobody could see how bad the bottom and sides really looked. Having renovated the pool, it's one of those common occurrences where we look back and ask ourselves, 'why did I wait so long to do this?!' And, maybe someday I'll say the same thing about converting to chlorine if I do decide to do that!