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Thread: Heat pump trouble

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    Heat pump trouble

    Hi - I am using an air sourced heatpump to heat my Intex above ground pool. Last year the pool heater worked well but this year I can't get enough water flow to start the heater. I have bought a new circulation pump (a 3/4 HP one - much bigger than is needed). I can hear some air in the system near to the heater but can't get rid of it. Any suggestions would be really appreciated, many thanks.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Welcome to TFP!

    Sounds like the filter is clogged?
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Welcome to TFP!

    Sounds like the filter is clogged?
    I have cleaned the filter and checked the flow rate, the pump is delivering almost 6 cubic m/hr and the heat pump needs 4.6 to run. There is some gurgling from time to time so it may be an air problem but I have no idea how to get the air out of the heat pump link as the pipe work is sealed

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    So, it is giving a low flow error? If the heater is connected with unions you can loosen the upper union to let out any air. But, a 3/4hp pump should be able to easily push any air out of the plumbing. Add your pool info to your sig so that we know what we are helping with, more here about adding a sig, Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post. And maybe post a pic of the equipment to see if we can see anything.
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    DSC06372.jpgMany thanks for your help. It is a flow problem, if I wiggle the upper pipe enough the heat pump will operate for a few seconds. It may be that the flow paddle is not as sensitive as it should be?
    Pool size: 5,000G, AG, Sand filter
    Unbranded 3/4HP new pump, pool installed: 2015

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Most heat pumps have a pressure switch that reads water pressure, not water flow. What does the pressure gauge read on the filter? What is clean pressure vs current pressure? How does the water flow feel from the return? Normal? Good flow?
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    1. Set the sandfilter valve in bypass mode and close the heatpump bypass valve. That provides full flow through the heatpump. Feel the flow from the return, should now be strong.
    2. If flow is weak, then he problem is airleak or the circulation pump.
    3. If flow is strong but heatpump still wont start, then the problem is the flow sensor or the heatpump controller.
    4. If the heatpump starts, put the sandfilter valve back in filter mode. (always shut off the circulation pump while changing position of the valve).
    5. If heatpump now wont start, the problem is a clogged sandfilter, try deep cleaning it if backwash is not enough.
    Intex Ultra Frame 24'x12'x52" (732cm x 366cm) rectangular pool
    Intex SF80220RC (1600 GPH) pump/sandfilter
    Intex SF10220 (1050 GPH) pump/sandfilter driving the
    Intex Automatic Pool Cleaner
    Intex 8220 ECO SWG, Brilix XHP100 9kW heatpump

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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Most heat pumps have a pressure switch that reads water pressure, not water flow. What does the pressure gauge read on the filter? What is clean pressure vs current pressure? How does the water flow feel from the return? Normal? Good flow?


    THe sand filter is running at 1 bar (mid amber range). The heat pump has a strange dial on it. This usually hovers at the lower end (with or without circulation pump running as shown in the picture) but the dial usually rises a lot as the heat pump starts and then drops back after a few seconds. The water flow feels strong from the return. I am not sure what clean pressure is?

    DSC06378.jpg
    Pool size: 5,000G, AG, Sand filter
    Unbranded 3/4HP new pump, pool installed: 2015

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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickelin View Post
    1. Set the sandfilter valve in bypass mode and close the heatpump bypass valve. That provides full flow through the heatpump. Feel the flow from the return, should now be strong.
    2. If flow is weak, then he problem is airleak or the circulation pump.
    3. If flow is strong but heatpump still wont start, then the problem is the flow sensor or the heatpump controller.
    4. If the heatpump starts, put the sandfilter valve back in filter mode. (always shut off the circulation pump while changing position of the valve).
    5. If heatpump now wont start, the problem is a clogged sandfilter, try deep cleaning it if backwash is not enough.
    Many thanks - it seems to be number 3 - the sensor or controller.
    Pool size: 5,000G, AG, Sand filter
    Unbranded 3/4HP new pump, pool installed: 2015

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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by mkp View Post
    Many thanks - it seems to be number 3 - the sensor or controller.
    I will have a look at the flow switch tomorrow. The instructions say that it can be adjusted, not sure how, does anyone have experience of adjusting one of these?
    Pool size: 5,000G, AG, Sand filter
    Unbranded 3/4HP new pump, pool installed: 2015

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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    What brand/model is your heatpump?
    Intex Ultra Frame 24'x12'x52" (732cm x 366cm) rectangular pool
    Intex SF80220RC (1600 GPH) pump/sandfilter
    Intex SF10220 (1050 GPH) pump/sandfilter driving the
    Intex Automatic Pool Cleaner
    Intex 8220 ECO SWG, Brilix XHP100 9kW heatpump

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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    The gauge you too a picture of is the refrigerant gauge on the compressor of the heat pump. It's showing the compressor outlet pressure which according to the spec sheet in the picture should be a max of 4.2MPa (~600psi). With the compressor off the gauge is reading the high side pressure of 1.3MPa which if you read the red scale in the middle matches what I'm guessing your outside air temp of about 18* C. In other words that gauge is telling you the refrigerant system doesn't have a leak. It should rise to close to 4.2MPa when the unit starts then back off to I'm guessing around ~3MPa after the TX valve opens.

    Long story short that gauge is doing exactly what it should be doing.
    Chuck-
    15x30 AG, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickelin View Post
    What brand/model is your heatpump?
    It is a Hydro-Pro 18Kw
    Pool size: 5,000G, AG, Sand filter
    Unbranded 3/4HP new pump, pool installed: 2015

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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by CJadamec View Post
    The gauge you too a picture of is the refrigerant gauge on the compressor of the heat pump. It's showing the compressor outlet pressure which according to the spec sheet in the picture should be a max of 4.2MPa (~600psi). With the compressor off the gauge is reading the high side pressure of 1.3MPa which if you read the red scale in the middle matches what I'm guessing your outside air temp of about 18* C. In other words that gauge is telling you the refrigerant system doesn't have a leak. It should rise to close to 4.2MPa when the unit starts then back off to I'm guessing around ~3MPa after the TX valve opens.

    Long story short that gauge is doing exactly what it should be doing.
    Many thanks, this makes a lot of sense - why don't they put this sort of explanation into the instructions? The instruction pack is so poor, it has been auto-translated from some other language into English.
    Pool size: 5,000G, AG, Sand filter
    Unbranded 3/4HP new pump, pool installed: 2015

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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    I'm amazed there is a gauge like that on a residential heat pump in the first place. You would never see that on US models. It's a shame because they are super useful when troubleshooting the compressor system.
    Chuck-
    15x30 AG, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Yeah, the manual really sucks. I have the Swedish version, just as poor. Does the display show the EE3 error code, indicating low flow? Or any other code? If you are sure that the flow is good and you are confident messing with electrical devices, you could try disconnecting the flow switch. The schematic is decent and the connection is easy to find. Just unscrew the right wire from the panel. If it still doesn't start, you need to get a technician to have a look at it, probably replace the circuit board.
    Intex Ultra Frame 24'x12'x52" (732cm x 366cm) rectangular pool
    Intex SF80220RC (1600 GPH) pump/sandfilter
    Intex SF10220 (1050 GPH) pump/sandfilter driving the
    Intex Automatic Pool Cleaner
    Intex 8220 ECO SWG, Brilix XHP100 9kW heatpump

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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickelin View Post
    Yeah, the manual really sucks. I have the Swedish version, just as poor. Does the display show the EE3 error code, indicating low flow? Or any other code? If you are sure that the flow is good and you are confident messing with electrical devices, you could try disconnecting the flow switch. The schematic is decent and the connection is easy to find. Just unscrew the right wire from the panel. If it still doesn't start, you need to get a technician to have a look at it, probably replace the circuit board.
    Many thanks to you all. I tried shorting out the switch and the unit started, so I drained the system, pulled the flow switch out and found that you can adjust the position of the sensor on the top of the switch. This makes the switch more/less sensitive. Once I did this the system works perfectly - the heat pump starts up when there is flow and stops when there is no flow. So much for the manual saying that you need to call a service person ....
    Pool size: 5,000G, AG, Sand filter
    Unbranded 3/4HP new pump, pool installed: 2015

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Nice! Thanks for the update.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Heat pump trouble

    Great work! Glad you got it sorted. Did you by chance take any pictures? Would be helpful for the next guy.
    Intex Ultra Frame 24'x12'x52" (732cm x 366cm) rectangular pool
    Intex SF80220RC (1600 GPH) pump/sandfilter
    Intex SF10220 (1050 GPH) pump/sandfilter driving the
    Intex Automatic Pool Cleaner
    Intex 8220 ECO SWG, Brilix XHP100 9kW heatpump

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