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Thread: Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

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    Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

    Hi All, I posted this question in my pool build, but didn't get a response, so I am putting it here too.

    Is anyone familiar with the Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product?

    http://www.c-m-p.com/cmp/wp-content/...-Brochure-.pdf

    According to the brochure, it is recommended for SWG pools and will also water bond the pool.

    My PB will only bond a pool if the inspector calls it out. And from what I have read, some LA City inspectors require it and some don't.

    The cost is only $50, so I may ask my PB to do it any way.

    But I don't know much about water bonding, so I am wondering if this is a gimmick or a legitimate way to bond a pool.
    Build in Progress - 15k gallons IG gunite, 12x38 rectangle 4-6-4, Raised Spa - 6x6 w/neg. edge & gas fire feature, All Pentair - IntelliFlo VS Pump, 420 Clean & Clear Filter, 400K BTU MasterTemp, IntelliChlor IC40 w/EasyTouch8 Bundle, ScreenLogic2, IntelliChem, 3 GloBrite LED Color Lights in Pool - 1 in Spa, 1 ColorVision LED Bubbler on Ledge, Bellecrete Grey Mod-Edge Pre-cast Coping, QuartzScape Mariner Blue, Sunstone-Lagoon 1x1 Mosaic

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

    Hi Tony,
    The defender doesn't bond the whole pool, it only ties the water itself to the rest of the bonding system. Some cities require that kind of thing, and some don't.

    the downside to these types of water bonding items such as this is that the copper they are made of eventually dissolves and ends up in your swimming pool and they periodically need to be replaced.

    Copper in a pool will result in ugly and permenent staining of your plaster and cause blonde hair to turn green, which requires a ketchup shampooing to get rid of. (thats right, its not chlorine that turns peoples hair green, its copper in the water that does it).

    If your municipality does not explicitly require the water to be bonded with one of these types of devices, then its safe to skip that particular item. (This is probably what your PB is talking about, not the rest of the pool bonding system?).

    As for the rest of the pool bonding. The National Electric Code, Section 680.26 REQUIRES pools to be boned. Bonding means installing a copper wire around the pool and of all metal items such as rebar of the deck, pool lights, and anything else metal within the vicinity be connected to that wire or grid. It is a critical safety feature.

    If indeed the PB does not intend on installing the bonding grid around the pool, then he clearly does not understand the safety implications of that and you should immediately either find a new PB, or demand that install the bonding grid as a minimum.

    Have you ever heard the news stories where someone was electrocuted or shocked while standing around a pool or when they grabbed the ladder while getting out of the pool? That can happen in the event of a electrical equipment failure if a pool wasn't bonded properly. It can be deadly if the equipotential difference is large enough. The bonding system equalizes the electrical potential of everyone in the vicinity and prevents these types of shocks from happening.

    Hope this helps,
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

    The NEC requires the water be bonded in all permanent pools. NEC 680.26(C). 680.26(B) lists the seven pool components that must be bonded. It is complex and can be difficult to interpret. (C) on the other hand is clear, if a bonded part listed in (B) is not in contact with the water, the water MUST be bonded. It sets forth the requirements for the method.

    THERE ARE NO LOCAL EXCEPTIONS THAT I AM AWARE OF FOR PERMANENT POOS ( Pools with a water depth of 42" or greater)

    Not bonding the water creates a VERY DANGEROUS CONDITION.

    Why? The purpose of bonding is to have every conductive element in a pool at the same electrical potential. If the water is not bonded then you have a conductive surface or material that is not at the same electrical potential as the other nearby conductive surfaces. A bather then could be the path of current trying to equalize the potential. In English electrical current could travel through a swimmer's body.

    That is why the most important bond is the deck to water bond so the deck or ladder (if its conductive) are always at the same potential so a swimmer attempting to exit the pool or self rescue is not shocked or worse paralyzed by a minor electrical current.

    Unless you have a clear problem with electrical galvanic corrosion and have a specific plan for dealing with it these anode things are a waste of money.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

    Hi Divin Dave and gwegan,

    Thanks for clarifying bonding. I will ask my PB what he was referring to. I will forgo the water bonding. However, I am not going to have a deck around my pool. Will they still be able to bond it?
    Build in Progress - 15k gallons IG gunite, 12x38 rectangle 4-6-4, Raised Spa - 6x6 w/neg. edge & gas fire feature, All Pentair - IntelliFlo VS Pump, 420 Clean & Clear Filter, 400K BTU MasterTemp, IntelliChlor IC40 w/EasyTouch8 Bundle, ScreenLogic2, IntelliChem, 3 GloBrite LED Color Lights in Pool - 1 in Spa, 1 ColorVision LED Bubbler on Ledge, Bellecrete Grey Mod-Edge Pre-cast Coping, QuartzScape Mariner Blue, Sunstone-Lagoon 1x1 Mosaic

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    TFP Guide

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    Re: Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

    Gwegan was saying you must bond the water, but don't need a sacrificial anode. Most pools get their water bond from the light niech but with LED lights that is becoming more rare in those cases the builder can add bonding device such as this THIS in the skimmer. Even without decking you will have concrete coping around the pool and from a bonding perspective they are the same thing, yes your PB will bond the coping at 4 equal distant points around the pool inspectors will be looking for that. As for the water bond if your builder does not want to put it in just point out to the inspector it is not there they will require it and the builder will be obligated. I would think the builder would want to spend the $50 over the liability of not dong it.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

    California inspectors will require a water bond. An LA county building inspector will want to see the rebar bonded at the pre gunite inspection, the water bond rough in, the deck bonding and deck to rebar bonding at the pre deck inspection. If these are not in to their satisfaction they will fail you on those inspections. Many cities and counties in California want a rebar grid under decks not just a single number 8. They will fail you on that too. If you are DYIing this work is important to have an over the counter talk with the folks at the counter about what is required at each inspection stage:

    Look at the last page of this handout from Northern California: https://www.roseville.ca.us/civicax/...x?blobid=18243

    And this one for a Southern California city: http://www.ci.oceanside.ca.us/civica...x?blobid=32590

    They are trained to look for a properly bonded pool. As Attech-2 mentions with low voltage nicheless lights then normal nine inch plate in the wet niche is often not available. The water bond can then be placed in the skimmer or in a enclosure in the deck adjacent to the pool.

    This is one area where a local pool builder has an large advantage over a owner builder, they know the unwritten standard required at each inspection stage
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Pool Defender In-line Water Bonding Product

    Hi Everyone, thanks for the answers. I understand it now. I have a licensed, reputable PB handling my build, but my experiences in the past with General contractors have left me a little less trusting. I was concerned because my contract specifically stated, they would not Bond unless required by the inspector. I'm in LA City and there is no specification in their Pool Build document about Bonding P/BC 2014-014 Construction of Swimming Pools, but it does reference following CBC 31b, whatever that is. So, if you are saying the inspector will look for it, then I'm not worried. My PB will need to do what is required to pass inspection. Thanks again for clarifying it.
    Build in Progress - 15k gallons IG gunite, 12x38 rectangle 4-6-4, Raised Spa - 6x6 w/neg. edge & gas fire feature, All Pentair - IntelliFlo VS Pump, 420 Clean & Clear Filter, 400K BTU MasterTemp, IntelliChlor IC40 w/EasyTouch8 Bundle, ScreenLogic2, IntelliChem, 3 GloBrite LED Color Lights in Pool - 1 in Spa, 1 ColorVision LED Bubbler on Ledge, Bellecrete Grey Mod-Edge Pre-cast Coping, QuartzScape Mariner Blue, Sunstone-Lagoon 1x1 Mosaic

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