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Thread: Not making sense

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    Not making sense

    Opened the pool to swamp and these readings

    FC 0
    pH 8.2+
    TA 60
    CYA 0

    Decided to add CYA and MA to lower pH to 7.2

    Based on PoolMath added Stabilizer in sock and MA. But readings came out

    FC 0
    pH 6.8-
    TA 40
    CYA 60-70

    Added Washing Soda to increase pH according to PoolMath and retested this morning

    FC 0
    pH 6.8-
    TA 30-40
    CYA 60-70

    What is going on and what do I do now?
    Vinyl IG 18x43 25,000 gallon
    Hayward Pro s244T 300 lb Sand (with occasional addition of clarifier)
    1.5 HP pump; Polaris 380 with booster pump; Hayward H400 gas heater
    TF-100 with SpeedSTIR

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Not making sense

    Are you saying that PH is now a negative 6.8? How much MA was added? Why no chlorine additions if you have a swamp?
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    Re: Not making sense

    Was waiting to have CYA and pH at level before SLAMing. The pH is reading 6.8, the lowest reading, but is actually lower because I added Washing Soda and it is still reading 6.8.
    Vinyl IG 18x43 25,000 gallon
    Hayward Pro s244T 300 lb Sand (with occasional addition of clarifier)
    1.5 HP pump; Polaris 380 with booster pump; Hayward H400 gas heater
    TF-100 with SpeedSTIR

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Not making sense

    How sure are you of your pool gallons? How did your testing go last summer?

    I would work on the PH asap then let us know what happens.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Not making sense

    I'd say recalulate from 6.8 and sneak up on it so as not to overshoot. You can add and retest in 30 minutes or so on PH while circulating.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
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    Re: Not making sense

    What CYA were you shooting for? Usually with 0 FC you would only want to hit 20-30 initially. Also how much MA did you add? Stabilizer is acidic, according to pool math to add enough stabilizer to go from 0-30 CYA it would lower my pH 0.56. Or 0-60 would lower pH 1.11 Did you take that into account when calculating the amount of MA to add?

    BTW, sneaking up on 7.2 from a low value is tricky as there isn't much room there to play with unless you can find another way to test how low it really is. I opened to a low pH this year, and it took me quite a while (and half of what I thought was a lifetime stock of soda ash) to get to 7.2. If you forgot to take into account the extra 1.11pH drop from the stabilizer your pH is probably quite low.
    20,000gal in-ground 16x36 sentry pools vinyl liner, Pentair sand filter, Pentair minimax NT heater, auto-cover, Polaris 280 cleaner.

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    Re: Not making sense

    Oh boy. Ok, so will work on that pH. But what about the CYA at 60-70? Got to get it down to 20-30 to SLAM. So the only way is to drain half the pool
    Vinyl IG 18x43 25,000 gallon
    Hayward Pro s244T 300 lb Sand (with occasional addition of clarifier)
    1.5 HP pump; Polaris 380 with booster pump; Hayward H400 gas heater
    TF-100 with SpeedSTIR

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    Re: Not making sense

    Depends if water is cheap, go for it if not, you will pay in bleach.

    Felipe
    7,500 gal Rectangular, Easytouch 8, Air+water temp sensors, Screenlogic2, IC40, intellibright5g color12v, Intelli pH, SD 70 filter w/Zeolit, Magicstream Laminars, waterfall. Raised Monolithic concrete lined with glass beads.

    In Sunny Monterrey,Mx!

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    Re: Not making sense

    Drained out an inch or two (to waste for 15 min or so) and now the pH is back above 8.2.

    Can someone please explain to me what is going on with this pool?

    To review: opened to swamp 0 CYA and pH 8.2+
    added CYA and MA and dropped pH below 6.8
    added Washing Soda and retested pH still below 6.8
    Tested CYA next morning around 70 when PoolMath said it should be around 30
    Backwashed to waste and now pH above 8.2 and CYA high 50s
    What's going on?
    Vinyl IG 18x43 25,000 gallon
    Hayward Pro s244T 300 lb Sand (with occasional addition of clarifier)
    1.5 HP pump; Polaris 380 with booster pump; Hayward H400 gas heater
    TF-100 with SpeedSTIR

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    Re: Not making sense

    Are you absolutely positive you had PoolMath set to 30,000 gallons when you calculated your CYA and MA additions? It sounds like you doubled up on everything in that step.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: Not making sense

    Can you test TA again please? Also, just for fun the TA of your fill water as well?
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    Re: Not making sense

    Incorrect gallons assumed or entered most likely. Dropping water level ain't the issue.
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
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    Re: Not making sense

    Ok. Maybe incorrect volume, so only thing to do now is drain more to lower CYA?

    Funny thing: my daughter was blowing the yard this morning with leaf blower and turns out she enjoyed "making waves" in the pool. Isn't that called aerating and wouldn't that account for the rise in pH?

    If so, what do I do now? Drop again with MA or does aerating eventually work itself back down?

    This is getting really frustrating!
    Vinyl IG 18x43 25,000 gallon
    Hayward Pro s244T 300 lb Sand (with occasional addition of clarifier)
    1.5 HP pump; Polaris 380 with booster pump; Hayward H400 gas heater
    TF-100 with SpeedSTIR

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    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Not making sense

    Eilum, not sure if Woody is on-line, so I thought I'd jump in to answer your last questions:
    - The blower? I doubt it had a big effect on pH. PH usually doesn't fluctuate so fast unless something has changed chemically. MA will effect pH (lower it) but stabilizer (CYA) doesn't. As your pH seems to be high (probably dark red/purple on the comparator viewing blocks), you will use MA to lower it. I would suggest for now, go slow and in stages with dosages and retest in about 30 min. To go from 8.2 to 7.3 is about 2 quarts and 1 cup of MA. If you're concerned about going too low, try just 1 quart then compare the result 30 min later. That could help you adjust your pool volume "IF" that's an issue.
    - Once the pH is adjusted down to 7.2-7.4, you can start the SLAM even though your CYA is 60. So it's up to you - drain water to lower CYA and use a lower SLAM (FC) level, or stay at a CYA of 60 and use the SLAM/Shock FC level of "24". Totally up to you. If you do decide to drain more water, don't bother adding muriatic acid to lower pH. It will go right into the lawn. Me personally, I'd just stay there (CYA of 60), not drain anymore, and prepare to SLAM once the pH is confirmed. Remember to pour MA (muriatic acid) very slowly near the return jet(s) and let mix for about 30 min then retest. We'll watch for updates and try to help you get back on track.

    Hope that helps.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Not making sense

    Thanks so much. Just did MA yesterday and not sure how it got back up (did not add that much Soda) but is what it is. So back to MA and will slow down, as you suggested. Isnt FC of 24 going to take alot of chlorine? And that means all summer long I will have to maintain at about 8 - which is also very high. Will have to decide what to do about the drain. Just don't see how this happened, I was trying to be so careful!!

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    1.5 HP pump; Polaris 380 with booster pump; Hayward H400 gas heater
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  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Not making sense

    Isnt FC of 24 going to take alot of chlorine?
    Since there seems to be some questions about your true pool size, I used the Poolmath calculator to estimate. I used 25K as a pool size, and to increase FC from zero to "24" is 7 gallons of regular 8.25% bleach. Of course if you have some FC in there now, you won't need as much. But once elevated to "24" then it's a matter of simply maintaining it.
    And that means all summer long I will have to maintain at about 8 - which is also very high.
    Don't be so tough on yourself. The elevated CYA keeps the FC safe and helps protect it from the sun. As long as you don't use tablets or add any forms of stabilizer, it will slowly/eventually go down from splashout and backwashing. For what it's worth, I keep my CYA at about 60 (sometimes higher) down here where I'm at because the sun is so intense. You probably don't have quite the same problem, but once you get past the SLAM, it will be fine.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Not making sense

    Just don't see how this happened, I was trying to be so careful!!
    Welcome to the big club of OOPS!
    16x32x52" Steel Cornelius Miramar AGP Vinyl liner 13,100 gal. Buried 2 ft.
    2 Speed Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 85 g.p.m. 22" 250lb. sand filter hard plumbed
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    Re: Not making sense

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
    Welcome to the big club of OOPS!
    Been there, done that


    Christina
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    Re: Not making sense

    Just wanted to update. Reapplied MA, carefully and slowly this time to get the pH down near 7.2 then started SLAM at the current CYA level. Been about 48 hours and pool looking blue again. Still cloudy but adding DE to sand filter really speeds up the process.

    So thank you all!!
    Vinyl IG 18x43 25,000 gallon
    Hayward Pro s244T 300 lb Sand (with occasional addition of clarifier)
    1.5 HP pump; Polaris 380 with booster pump; Hayward H400 gas heater
    TF-100 with SpeedSTIR

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    Mod Squad Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Not making sense

    Outstanding! Stay with it and maintain. Soon, you'll find patience is the hardest part of a SLAM. Don't forget to take a pic each day to compare progress.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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