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Thread: is there a consensus?

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    is there a consensus?

    Thinking about a equipment overhaul. It appears in reading a lot of the posts on here that most prefer Pentair equipment over Jandy or others. Is that an accurate or fair conclusion? Also, on filters, is there a consensus on sand vs cartridge vs DE?

    Thanks
    35000 gallon inground kidney shaped pool with Pebble Tec finish built 2001
    Jandy CL580 cartridge filter; Polaris robot cleaner;
    Candy 1.5 HP Pro Series pump: Pentair IC60 SWCG
    Greenwood SC; no well; use TF-100 test kit I got online

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    Is that an accurate or fair conclusion? Also, on filters, is there a consensus on sand vs cartridge vs DE?
    No and No. Certainly, the forum avoids endorsing any one brand and in reality, it seems over the years that the equipment brands seem reasonably equal.

    Have you read the articles on filters in Pool School. Each type has advantages but there is no clear favorite.
    Dave S.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    No, not really. There is a concensus that Pentair vs Hayward is like Ford vs Chevy. Most folks who have Pentair like Pentair and most folks who have Hayward like Hayward. They seem to be the top 2 by far and I guess Jandy is like Dodge. My PB is a Pentair guy and now I am a Pentair guy because my equipment works great.

    Here is a discussion of various filters, Pool School - Pool Filter Comparison
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    It really is personal. DE is the best hands down, but its way more maintenance compared to Sand. Carts for me are unacceptable for the amount of dust we have, and I would never want to have to wash them. Sand is so easy, and gives the same clarity to the naked eye in daylight its a quick decision for me.

    Brands are harder. I think Pentair is great because I have it, and think Jandy is too expensive. It does seem pretty reasonable to put this comparison to the Ford/Chevy/Dodge argument sorry to say.
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    Ok so it sounds like once I choose a PB to work with on the overhaul I should just use the brand he/she carries assuming it is one of the main brands. I'm guessing Jandy or Pentair.

    My pool is surrounded by trees and therefore gets alot of debris at various times of the year from said trees- leaves, pine needles, gumballs occasionally. I live in the south east as well so pollen is a concern this time of year. Does any of this impact your thoughts on the type of filter to go with? I have had a cartridge filter for years. I guess it has worked well. I know that those things are nasty to pull out and clean and they never truly look clean once you put them in.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What makes DE more maintenance?
    35000 gallon inground kidney shaped pool with Pebble Tec finish built 2001
    Jandy CL580 cartridge filter; Polaris robot cleaner;
    Candy 1.5 HP Pro Series pump: Pentair IC60 SWCG
    Greenwood SC; no well; use TF-100 test kit I got online

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    This, Pool School - Maintenance and Cleaning of Pool Filters

    It is basically sand is easiest, least maintenance and least effective. Cartridges are more maintenance and better. DE is most maintenance and most effective.

    But, using TFPC all filters will give you a perfectly clean and clear pool. I have cartridge filter and I really do not think it is possible for my water to get any clearer. I would probably get a sand filter if I had it to do over. But, we have lots and lots of trees so I have to clean my filter 2-3 times in spring and fall. Most folks only have to clean theirs once in spring and once in fall.
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    Thanks again for the info.

    I'm surprised there is not something that can automatically check FC and CYA inline and adjust the SWG accordingly. Now that would be sweet. Just do an occasional check to make sure it is accurate when you were checking pH, TA and CH.
    35000 gallon inground kidney shaped pool with Pebble Tec finish built 2001
    Jandy CL580 cartridge filter; Polaris robot cleaner;
    Candy 1.5 HP Pro Series pump: Pentair IC60 SWCG
    Greenwood SC; no well; use TF-100 test kit I got online

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    There is such a thing but most of what I've read says it's more trouble than testing and dosing manually.
    Bob - INTEX 12x24 owner (not setup yet), 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    The fact that DE can so easily be added to a sand filter makes them best choice IMO. I don't see a down side:

    - High capacity for dirt and debris
    - No consumables (even a small package of DE is practically a lifetime supply)
    - Easy cleaning (I haven't performed a deep cleaning, but that worst-case scenario for sand seems comparable to regular maintenance of DE and cartridge...)
    - Controllable / adjustable level of filtering: sand only for high levels of dirt/debris, add DE for finer filtering and increased clarity
    12,000 gal Diamond Brite indoor​ pool. Pentair Triton TR-60 Sand Filter +added DE, Lochinvar Energyrite ERN-200 gas heater, Pentair Multi-valve, Pentair SuperFlo VS pump, TF-100 kit, Pool Math App - iOS

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    I'm fairly sure I'll be in the minority about this discussion regarding DE maint frequencies.

    I'm located in the Dallas TX area.

    I Backwash my 36 Sq Ft Nautilus (Pentair) Filter about once every 3-4 months. I've been able to go 6 months between Backwashes a couple of times during the past several years.

    I have a Pecan Tree overhanging my pool so I also receive seasonal pollen, pecan buds, leaves, etc into my pool.

    Before I switched to TFP methodology in June 2014 (Bleach dosing with FC/CYA ratio monitoring), I had to Backwash using the 'pool store' rule of thumb, ie, once every month or so.

    Since using TFP methods, my Backwash frequency has decreased significantly.

    The last time I pulled the DE Grid Assembly for a complete cleanup was Sept 2013.

    I monitor my PSI reading regularly, recording 'pre load' (after Backwashing & before loading w/new DE), and 'post-load' PSI readings.

    I have gained ~1 PSI since Sept '13 from a 'best-case' starting PSI reading (PSI reading with a new Grid Assembly installed prior to loading with DE).

    I have a working TFP Glycerin-filled 0-30 PSI Gauge on my DE Tank.

    So far, I've not seen the need to pull my DE Grids on a timed basis. I realize this isn't the forum recommendations and I'm not disputing the recommendation in any way. I'm just providing my experiences as a DE filter pool owner.

    I've never used Cartridge or Sand filters so I have no experience with either filter type with my pool.

    As other members have said, it's a matter of personal preference.
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    I had a pool 20 years ago that had a sand filter and i remember the periodic backwashing. My present pool has run on a cartridge filter since construction. I think it works fine but cleaning the cartridges(4) 2-3 times a year is a dirty job and I'm always left wondering just how clean the cartridges are when i put them back in. They are certainly cleaner but by no means do they look anything close to new.

    I'm intrigued by DE but need to educate myself about it more.

    DE can be added to a sand filter? Best of both worlds?
    35000 gallon inground kidney shaped pool with Pebble Tec finish built 2001
    Jandy CL580 cartridge filter; Polaris robot cleaner;
    Candy 1.5 HP Pro Series pump: Pentair IC60 SWCG
    Greenwood SC; no well; use TF-100 test kit I got online

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    Yes, more here, Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

    Scoop,
    That is great feedback, thanks for posting!
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: is there a consensus?



    Forgot to mention that I also have a FlowvisŪ Flow Meter installed on my Return Line so that adds another measuring tool for determining Backwash frequencies.
    - Pool Type: 15k Gal Gunite IG non-SWG / Built 1988
    - Pump: Pentair Challenger / Sweep Pump: Letro Model LA01N .75HP Single-speed / 6 hrs-day (1 turnover)
    - D.E. Filter: OEM: Nautilus (Pentair) #NS 36 / 36 Sq Ft / D.E. Charge: 3.6 Lb
    - Pentair 4-wheel Sweep LL505G - Booster Pump runs ~2 hrs/day

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    Quote Originally Posted by krfuquamd View Post
    I think it works fine but cleaning the cartridges(4) 2-3 times a year is a dirty job and I'm always left wondering just how clean the cartridges are when i put them back in.
    When sized right and the pool maintained properly, you really shouldn't need to clean them more than once per year. Most often, cartridges are not sized properly for a pool so people complain about the cleaning frequency. Bigger is better and I only clean mine once per year and don't really need to since there is only a 1 PSI rise in the filter.
    Mark
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    Hey, I bought the biggest one they had.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    I think I know what you all are going to say but can u comment on UV systems. I was talking to a friend who is having a pool built and he opted for a UV system instead of SWG. He says he was told it will allow him to run a lower level of chlorine. Thoughts?
    35000 gallon inground kidney shaped pool with Pebble Tec finish built 2001
    Jandy CL580 cartridge filter; Polaris robot cleaner;
    Candy 1.5 HP Pro Series pump: Pentair IC60 SWCG
    Greenwood SC; no well; use TF-100 test kit I got online

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    Re: is there a consensus?

    UV systems on outdoor pools are sort of a waste of money when you consider the big sun outside provides plenty of free UV light. It does not lower the chlorine requirements.
    They do provide a benefit for indoor pools though.

    Skimmer socks will help collect a LOT of pollen and help extend the time between backwashing filters.

    Yip
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    My thought is that is incorrect.
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    Quote Originally Posted by krfuquamd View Post
    I think I know what you all are going to say but can u comment on UV systems. I was talking to a friend who is having a pool built and he opted for a UV system instead of SWG. He says he was told it will allow him to run a lower level of chlorine. Thoughts?
    UV doesn't leave any sanitizer in pool so will still need chlorine. I've always felt UV was overpriced for little benefit
    24ft x 52in AGP 18000 gal
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    Re: is there a consensus?

    The other downside of both UV and ozone is that in order for them to be effective water must always be passing through the unit (i.e. no residual like CL) which means the pump must be running and turnovers high. So they can needlessly extend pump run time.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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