To seal or not to seal - travertine

[grumpiebk]

What are the pros and cons of sealing or not sealing travertine pavers? We are at the stage in our build where it would be easiest to do it now if we were going to.

I know there is a healthy debate on actually protecting the stone, and there is a color/look preference, but what else? Does it protect against weeds? Does it make it easier to maintain clean? Add grip or reduce grip?

What are the downfalls of sealing besides cost?


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[needsajet]

I was just out cleaning up a wine spill and it came off fairly easily. I can't know for sure if the sealer helped, but maybe.

If you put it on before plastering the pool, avoid letting it drip on the gunite (drips from the edge of the coping and would reduce adhesion).

I used a clear, penetrating sealer so it didn't change grip. Slightly darkened the colour but barely noticeable. The sealer wears off over time anyway, ready for a new coat, so I'm not sure that you have to worry about long-term effects.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Sealing - Expensive, has to be redone on a regular schedule (as much as every 18 months), typically makes surface very hydrophobic (more slippery if surface is already polished)

Not sealing - Salt and sulfate attack is easier when the surface is not sealed, water penetrates stone which can affect base layer, mold more likely to grow in humid environments, stain forming materials can more easily penetrate

Given your salt pool construction, I would seal the travertine. It's probably the softest and easiest masonry material to damage with salt exposure and it is expensive to install, clean and repair. Since you can do it now when it's most effective, I would do it.

 

[grumpiebk]

I was just out cleaning up a wine spill and it came off fairly easily. I can't know for sure if the sealer helped, but maybe.

If you put it on before plastering the pool, avoid letting it drip on the gunite (drips from the edge of the coping and would reduce adhesion).

I used a clear, penetrating sealer so it didn't change grip. Slightly darkened the colour but barely noticeable. The sealer wears off over time anyway, ready for a new coat, so I'm not sure that you have to worry about long-term effects.

Thanks. What made you seal it? We have a dog and 3 kids so my biggest concern is keeping the decking somewhat clean when they trek back and forth from the grass and playground onto the deck. Helping with stains will certainly help too. Does the sealer actually help keep dirt out of the pores of the stone? Or does it just make easier to clean off? Weeds would probably be my second concern given the wet/humid weather here in south Florida.


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[grumpiebk]

Sealing - Expensive, has to be redone on a regular schedule (as much as every 18 months), typically makes surface very hydrophobic (more slippery if surface is already polished)

Once the sealer wears off can you tell it has been sealed and needs to be redone? Or does it just return back to an unsealed state? I ask because a handful of neighbors have experienced somewhat of a white/clear film on the travertine as a result of sealing. Not sure if it wasn't done properly, hasn't been maintained properly, or has just worn unevenly for them.


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[JoyfulNoise]

Once the sealer wears off can you tell it has been sealed and needs to be redone? Or does it just return back to an unsealed state? I ask because a handful of neighbors have experienced somewhat of a white/clear film on the travertine as a result of sealing. Not sure if it wasn't done properly, hasn't been maintained properly, or has just worn unevenly for them.


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It was not properly sealed. A sealant should be a penetrating type sealant, meaning that you apply it to the surface in a little bit of a flood, let it sit and then wipe it all up. The point is for the sealant to penetrate into the stone's natural porous structure and both fill and bind the pores so that water cannot infiltrate. But what you do not want is for it to form a film over the surface of the stone or else you'll get what your neighbors have.

The only products I have seen that are worth it are either StoneTech by DuPont or DryTreat 40SK by Hannafin. If either of those products is installed by a properly trained and licensed mason (typically using an individual tile dip coating process prior to installation), then there is a very hefty warranty that you get with it - essentially something like a 15-year warranty on the stone work against damage and staining. But, the catch is that it has to be done by a licensed installer and my understanding is that they are few and far between...and it literally adds thousands of dollars to the installation cost above materials and labor.

 

[needsajet]

Our decision to seal was for stain resistance. Our stone is on a concrete base and is grouted in place, so no weed issues. I rolled it on after the grout set and wiped off, as Matt described.

 

[grumpiebk]

Our decision to seal was for stain resistance. Our stone is on a concrete base and is grouted in place, so no weed issues. I rolled it on after the grout set and wiped off, as Matt described.

Ah, I wish we were able to have a concrete base with poly sand. Ours is a gravel/sand base with sand filled in joints. Joints are pretty tight tho.


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[JoyfulNoise]

Ah, I wish we were able to have a concrete base with poly sand. Ours is a gravel/sand base with sand filled in joints. Joints are pretty tight tho.


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That's pretty typical for pavers. You don't really need a concrete base unless you expect soil movement. Where I am, very few contractors do concrete paver base installs because it's just unnecessary. A good sand joint can/should last a long time. I have a section of pavers done in poly-sand. Honestly speaking, I don't like it and the poly sand has come out in some spots. It's easy enough to fix but it's not as good a properly set sand joint.


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[grumpiebk]

That's pretty typical for pavers. You don't really need a concrete base unless you expect soil movement. Where I am, very few contractors do concrete paver base installs because it's just unnecessary. A good sand joint can/should last a long time. I have a section of pavers done in poly-sand. Honestly speaking, I don't like it and the poly sand has come out in some spots. It's easy enough to fix but it's not as good a properly set sand joint.


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Agreed. It would be completely unnecessary for our 2k sqft patio and would be a really expensive weed barrier. I love the look of our travertine but I know weeding is going to be a full time job in the summer months here in South Florida.


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[JoyfulNoise]

Agreed. It would be completely unnecessary for our 2k sqft patio and would be a really expensive weed barrier. I love the look of our travertine but I know weeding is going to be a full time job in the summer months here in South Florida.


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Did they apply any weed killer / pre-emergent before laying down the pavers?

We have a DIY Weed and Pest control shop here where I can get the commercial grade water based weed killer for my sprayer. If you have access to stuff like that, the water based stuff (minus any blue dye or surfactant) should give you a quick and long lasting kill.


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[needsajet]

Nothing wrong with that, and some prefer that approach in case anything needs be added, changed or dug up. We have some other pavers elsewhere in the yard bedded on sand, and for weeds I wander past every 10 days with my handy squirter bottle of 2% glyphosate. Any new weeds get a little squirt from an inch away so it wont drift around. You can also get a mix of glyphosate and simazine which gives more permanent control. Downside of that is that simazine is persistent and can get picked up in runoff and end up in a garden bed, so I don't use it. Simazine stops seeds from germinating. My dad and gramma used a liberal dose of salt cause if there's enough, most germinating seeds don't succeed, although there are definitely salt resistant weeds, likely tons of them in Florida.

Sealer won't help or hurt the sand. About the only comment is that sand might get in the sealer as you're doing the job, picked up by a roller. No harm in that, but it might be a bother until any stuck sand granules break free.

I might be off track, but one comment you made might be worth a mention. The sealer will not do anything for the big holes in travertine, other than sealing the bottom of them. If you want to fill the big holes in travertine, you need to use grout. Personally I wouldn't do that cause it changes the character of the stone, unless there's the odd hole that's really annoying. Some travertine has holes big enough for dirt to accumulate and allow a weed seed to germinate, but I'd bet those are few and far between.

 

[grumpiebk]

I might be off track, but one comment you made might be worth a mention. The sealer will not do anything for the big holes in travertine, other than sealing the bottom of them. If you want to fill the big holes in travertine, you need to use grout. Personally I wouldn't do that cause it changes the character of the stone, unless there's the odd hole that's really annoying. Some travertine has holes big enough for dirt to accumulate and allow a weed seed to germinate, but I'd bet those are few and far between.

We aren't interested in filling in the holes, as the really big ones are few and far between like you said. But from what we have seen from others, this is where most dirt and mold accumulates, giving an otherwise very light colored stone a spotted dirty look. My comment was more questioning if sealer would make it easier to clean this, like with a hose versus a power washer or some specific cleaner.


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[JoyfulNoise]

We aren't interested in filling in the holes, as the really big ones are few and far between like you said. But from what we have seen from others, this is where most dirt and mold accumulates, giving an otherwise very light colored stone a spotted dirty look. My comment was more questioning if sealer would make it easier to clean this, like with a hose versus a power washer or some specific cleaner.


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A penetrating sealant like DryTreat 40sk or DuPont StoneTech will (should) make the stone surface very hydrophobic. Instead of the stone becoming damp or looking wet, water will bead up on the surface and the stone will (should) remain dry. This will enhance the ability of the water droplets to evaporate from the stone surface. That said, any dirt or stains should be able to be washed away with a garden hose. You want to very careful with pressure washers and travertine, especially with the sand joints. Too high of a pressure can damage the sand joints and/or erode the stone surface. Also, if you look at some of the professional tiling cleaning sites, they will all have very clear warnings about using any kind of cleaning chemicals (even the kind that claim to be pH neutral) on travertine. Even something as simple as OxyClean can damage travertine tiles.

In the case of travertine, preventing spills and stains in the first place is your best approach. For dirt, you might consider getting one of those battery powered leaf blowers to help "dust" the tile surface. Just keep it out on the deck and plugged in and, whenever you're around, give the deck a good once-over with the blower...it might even be a good way to "push" water off the tile...

 

[grumpiebk]

A penetrating sealant like DryTreat 40sk or DuPont StoneTech will (should) make the stone surface very hydrophobic. Instead of the stone becoming damp or looking wet, water will bead up on the surface and the stone will (should) remain dry. This will enhance the ability of the water droplets to evaporate from the stone surface. That said, any dirt or stains should be able to be washed away with a garden hose. You want to very careful with pressure washers and travertine, especially with the sand joints. Too high of a pressure can damage the sand joints and/or erode the stone surface. Also, if you look at some of the professional tiling cleaning sites, they will all have very clear warnings about using any kind of cleaning chemicals (even the kind that claim to be pH neutral) on travertine. Even something as simple as OxyClean can damage travertine tiles.

In the case of travertine, preventing spills and stains in the first place is your best approach. For dirt, you might consider getting one of those battery powered leaf blowers to help "dust" the tile surface. Just keep it out on the deck and plugged in and, whenever you're around, give the deck a good once-over with the blower...it might even be a good way to "push" water off the tile...

Very helpful. Thanks for all of the information !


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[Agd38]

Hi! Here's my two cents... On my previous build I sealed my travertine for 3 reasons.
1. Added shark grip which applied a coating for better traction kinda like sand couldn't see it but felt it. Have young kids and travertine wet is very slippery. It helped but not night and day difference in grip.
2. The sealer with enhancer totally brings out the stones best looks in my opinion.
3. I had Roman blend and it looked chalky without it.

Take a bucket of water and dump it on the stone that should give you an idea of what it would look like sealed. I attached my deck sealed and it really shines.
Downfall is having to do every 2/3 years depending on how much direct sun hits the deck.

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[grumpiebk]

Hi! Here's my two cents... On my previous build I sealed my travertine for 3 reasons.
1. Added shark grip which applied a coating for better traction kinda like sand couldn't see it but felt it. Have young kids and travertine wet is very slippery. It helped but not night and day difference in grip.
2. The sealer with enhancer totally brings out the stones best looks in my opinion.
3. I had Roman blend and it looked chalky without it.

Take a bucket of water and dump it on the stone that should give you an idea of what it would look like sealed. I attached my deck sealed and it really shines.
Downfall is having to do every 2/3 years depending on how much direct sun hits the deck.

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Looks great! We still haven't had rain since our deck was laid so im honestly not sure what it looks like when the whole thing is wet. I'm interested to see. I actually think I prefer the lighter dry look tho.


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[Agd38]

Looks great! We still haven't had rain since our deck was laid so im honestly not sure what it looks like when the whole thing is wet. I'm interested to see. I actually think I prefer the lighter dry look tho.


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Which color are you going with in travertine deck? We are still not sure but most likely go with what we had.


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[grumpiebk]

We went with ivory. Originally we chose walnut as we wanted something in the middle of ivory and walnut and were worried about ivory being too light. But our PB's supplier recent inventory of ivory had some more variation in color with some darker shades like we wanted so we switched our selection. We thought that if we ever decided to seal it, ivory would darken to our liking while walnut would be too dark. Here's a pic of our recently installed deck:

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[needsajet]

Beautiful area! There's going to be some fun times out there