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PoolMath issue--how many gallons?
- Thread starter tdp
- Start date
Re: OCLT and ambient light
My water has never been green. It started to look "dull" in the deep end, i.e. not as clear and sparkly as before. I had this same issue at the same time last year (first season of pool); didn't realize what it was at first, ended up SLAMing and it cleared up. The dullness is really subtle when it first starts.
Last year, I was running SWG to get btwn 1-3 PPM, since that is what my SWG manual recommends. I've been trying to run it somewhat higher this season because that's what's recommended here at TFP, but have been struggling to maintain a constant level because I'm still learning the SWG/CYA/sun on pool/bather load balance. I brush thoroughly once a week when water is below about 77 degrees and twice a week when above (water temp is now ~83 F) Direct sun starts on shallow end of pool at about 9 AM or so, and whole pool is in full sun from about 11:45-4:30ish.
Something I have noticed and will remedy once the FC falls to 26 so I can go into pool safely--I have 3 PAL Treo PAL-2T2 lights (Electrician left me NO manuals, so I just called my installer to find out this info!) Ever since my problem last season, there has been kind of a brown liquid behind the outer lens covers. I am in contact with someone at PAL, who has told me how to remove the outer lens covers, so I will remove them and clean them as PAL recommended in 50/50 bleach and water. I still am waiting for PAL to get me a manual; I don't feel comfortable removing the lights from their niches to clean behind there without instructions on how to remove them.
I also would welcome tips on taking the skimmer cover off/cleaning inside the skimmer--looks fine when you take the lid off, but I know there's this whole area between the weir and the round space you can see with the lid off that I cannot see.
Only other thing I have in the pool is a thermometer attached to a cord that goes into a seashell and is held in by concrete. Even though the shell/concrete is never in the water, I put the whole kit and kaboodle into the pool to get SLAMed. No ladders or other fixtures in pool.
My water has never been green. It started to look "dull" in the deep end, i.e. not as clear and sparkly as before. I had this same issue at the same time last year (first season of pool); didn't realize what it was at first, ended up SLAMing and it cleared up. The dullness is really subtle when it first starts.
Last year, I was running SWG to get btwn 1-3 PPM, since that is what my SWG manual recommends. I've been trying to run it somewhat higher this season because that's what's recommended here at TFP, but have been struggling to maintain a constant level because I'm still learning the SWG/CYA/sun on pool/bather load balance. I brush thoroughly once a week when water is below about 77 degrees and twice a week when above (water temp is now ~83 F) Direct sun starts on shallow end of pool at about 9 AM or so, and whole pool is in full sun from about 11:45-4:30ish.
Something I have noticed and will remedy once the FC falls to 26 so I can go into pool safely--I have 3 PAL Treo PAL-2T2 lights (Electrician left me NO manuals, so I just called my installer to find out this info!) Ever since my problem last season, there has been kind of a brown liquid behind the outer lens covers. I am in contact with someone at PAL, who has told me how to remove the outer lens covers, so I will remove them and clean them as PAL recommended in 50/50 bleach and water. I still am waiting for PAL to get me a manual; I don't feel comfortable removing the lights from their niches to clean behind there without instructions on how to remove them.
I also would welcome tips on taking the skimmer cover off/cleaning inside the skimmer--looks fine when you take the lid off, but I know there's this whole area between the weir and the round space you can see with the lid off that I cannot see.
Only other thing I have in the pool is a thermometer attached to a cord that goes into a seashell and is held in by concrete. Even though the shell/concrete is never in the water, I put the whole kit and kaboodle into the pool to get SLAMed. No ladders or other fixtures in pool.
PM seems to be pretty accurate for me when adding acid to adjust pH, although I've never been too comfortable with the inaccuracy of my reading the color gradations on the pH test--I wish there were an affordable pH test where the endpoint was as easy to judge as the FAS-DPD test 
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,890
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Re: OCLT and ambient light
I am assuming you have tried to download the manual off the internet for the light, etc. My interpretation of the "brown liquid" seems to me that it could be rust, but not sure. When you have a moment, please post up a full set of test results as well, considering you have the TF-100 Test Kit (We trust the results). You may want to hire a professional for one hour (probably no more than $75-$90) to come over and remove the light cover and skimmer cover to see if anything is lurking back there. For me, to spend the small amount of $$$ would be worth it. If someone wanted a lot more, then of course I would attack the problem myself. If you had any type of rust or galvanic corrosion, it would be very clear as rust or staining would start appearing on the screws around the light niche, the white trim pieces, in addition to some staining on the fiberglass. Once you rule out the "brown stuff" as rust, then you can easily clear your cloudy water. Again, please post up a full set of results.
TC
FC
CC
PH
TA
CH
CYA
Regarding recommend levels here at TFP, they are recommendations. You have to find what works for your pool. I have had to bring down the TA to around 70 before my PH stabilized because I have these rotating heads. Last year, every 4 days I needed to add acid. Please keep us posted!
I am assuming you have tried to download the manual off the internet for the light, etc. My interpretation of the "brown liquid" seems to me that it could be rust, but not sure. When you have a moment, please post up a full set of test results as well, considering you have the TF-100 Test Kit (We trust the results). You may want to hire a professional for one hour (probably no more than $75-$90) to come over and remove the light cover and skimmer cover to see if anything is lurking back there. For me, to spend the small amount of $$$ would be worth it. If someone wanted a lot more, then of course I would attack the problem myself. If you had any type of rust or galvanic corrosion, it would be very clear as rust or staining would start appearing on the screws around the light niche, the white trim pieces, in addition to some staining on the fiberglass. Once you rule out the "brown stuff" as rust, then you can easily clear your cloudy water. Again, please post up a full set of results.
TC
FC
CC
PH
TA
CH
CYA
Regarding recommend levels here at TFP, they are recommendations. You have to find what works for your pool. I have had to bring down the TA to around 70 before my PH stabilized because I have these rotating heads. Last year, every 4 days I needed to add acid. Please keep us posted!
Re: OCLT and ambient light
Just my 2 cents, last year I had similar issue, SWG wouldn't keep up, water looked dull, scrubbing and vacuuming didn't help. I searched online for manual for my light, found out 1 set screw at 12 oclock position was all that was holding it. Should be easy but working underwater trying to get leverage on a Phillips head screw wasn't easy. But once I got it out, the niche was very slimy, green stuff, turned rag and Mr Clean magic eraser green. Having put the light back in 'hand-tight' I can more easily remove it now, so I get a frequent water exchange this year.
Just my experience, I don't know anything about your brand of lights though.
Just my 2 cents, last year I had similar issue, SWG wouldn't keep up, water looked dull, scrubbing and vacuuming didn't help. I searched online for manual for my light, found out 1 set screw at 12 oclock position was all that was holding it. Should be easy but working underwater trying to get leverage on a Phillips head screw wasn't easy. But once I got it out, the niche was very slimy, green stuff, turned rag and Mr Clean magic eraser green. Having put the light back in 'hand-tight' I can more easily remove it now, so I get a frequent water exchange this year.
Just my experience, I don't know anything about your brand of lights though.
Re: OCLT and ambient light
I've had absolutely no luck finding the manual online. Here is a photo of what one of the lights looks like:
Here are my test results as of now (~11:30 A EDT)
The results in parentheses are from testing I did BEFORE starting SLAM last night.
FC 23.5
CC .5
(pH 7.5; dropped it to 7.2 before starting SLAM)
(TA 70)
(CH 220)
CYA 65 (did three tests with same bottle; came out ~65, ~65, 70)
(Salt 3200)
Am going to bump up the FC to 28, although if you read all the posts in this thread (which a moderator combined with the other thread I had going on), you will see that I'm not quite sure how much Cl to add since my pool is having some issue with PoolMath......sigh
- - - Updated - - -
I appreciate your input. I definitely want to get those lights pulled and clean back there as soon as I can get reliable info on how to do it. Trying to find the model number and manual for my lights has been a CIA-level operation!!!
- - - Updated - - -
No doubt the math is correct, but as you can see from reading this thread, there is some issue going on with my pool and PoolMath that we can't quite figure
I've had absolutely no luck finding the manual online. Here is a photo of what one of the lights looks like:
Here are my test results as of now (~11:30 A EDT)
The results in parentheses are from testing I did BEFORE starting SLAM last night.
FC 23.5
CC .5
(pH 7.5; dropped it to 7.2 before starting SLAM)
(TA 70)
(CH 220)
CYA 65 (did three tests with same bottle; came out ~65, ~65, 70)
(Salt 3200)
Am going to bump up the FC to 28, although if you read all the posts in this thread (which a moderator combined with the other thread I had going on), you will see that I'm not quite sure how much Cl to add since my pool is having some issue with PoolMath......sigh
- - - Updated - - -
I appreciate your input. I definitely want to get those lights pulled and clean back there as soon as I can get reliable info on how to do it. Trying to find the model number and manual for my lights has been a CIA-level operation!!!
- - - Updated - - -
No doubt the math is correct, but as you can see from reading this thread, there is some issue going on with my pool and PoolMath that we can't quite figure
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,890
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
You appear to have the same 3-3.5 inch LEDs as I do. I had to get a cover a while back which looked something like this: Fiberstars Clear Snap On Lens (pal-2000) (fpal-lc) - INYOPools.com. Unlike traditional lights (large 300W) that have a large cavity (niche) behind them that can hold algae, I doubt you'll have much issues with those. Although I did pull the covers off mine and clean them inside.
My lights are very similar, but my covers don't have that tab on them that the INYO pool lens cover picture does. I swear, trying to find the manual/info for my pool lights is so difficult that you would think I was looking for classified information!!
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- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,890
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I agree. Nothing available for me either. My original LED covers did not have tabs either, but those covers still fit. Tight, but they fit. The good thing is that unlike traditional lights with a large niche, you shouldn't have an algae issue behind them. Just wipe the inside of the lenses perhaps.
I just talked (again) to a tech at PAL lighting. She says these lights cannot be removed from their niche without either draining the pool down below the lights OR disconnecting their wires at the box and taping a cord to the wires so you can put the light on the pool deck! So clearly I will not be checking the niches, which she says are much smaller than the old incandescent light niches if that makes any difference.
So I will be removing the outer lens cover and cleaning it, and I think also putting a bleach rag in a plastic bag and opening it onto the inner lens to get a quick bleach wipe (this was advised by PAL tech). I'll let you know how it goes....
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Re: OCLT and ambient light
Pool Volume
Strength/form of chlorine
Quantity used
There should be nothing special about your water as far as this is concerned.
Are all of your other results skewed as well, or just FC?
Dom
I'm pretty sure that the only thing that matters for pool math is:.......No doubt the math is correct, but as you can see from reading this thread, there is some issue going on with my pool and PoolMath that we can't quite figure
Pool Volume
Strength/form of chlorine
Quantity used
There should be nothing special about your water as far as this is concerned.
Are all of your other results skewed as well, or just FC?
Dom
Re: OCLT and ambient light
See PP #3 and #16 for the pool volume discussion.
To do the SLAM, I am using 10% bleach from Walmart (I think they actually call it Pool Chlorinating Liquid). It has nothing else in it but 10% chlorine.
I hadn't noticed that my results were terribly skewed before, except my CYA did not seem to go up as much as it should have based on what I put into the skimmer sock.
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See PP #3 and #16 for the pool volume discussion.
To do the SLAM, I am using 10% bleach from Walmart (I think they actually call it Pool Chlorinating Liquid). It has nothing else in it but 10% chlorine.
I hadn't noticed that my results were terribly skewed before, except my CYA did not seem to go up as much as it should have based on what I put into the skimmer sock.
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Here are more SLAM questions: (1) I do deep-water aerobics and swim with a swim trainer (something that holds me in place so I don't have to swim 36 ft. laps). The bag with the deep-water aerobics equipment is pretty bulky. Can I suspend it in the pool somehow so it gets exposed to the SLAM, or do I have to clean it manually with bleach outside of the pool? (2) I have a robovac (Dolphin Triton). Can it go in the pool? It's pretty expensive, so I don't want to put it in if the chemicals are going to damage it.
It may be because today is such a gorgeous day, but the pool water looks like it is regaining some sparklyness (is that a word)? Hope it's not just wishful thinking.
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It may be because today is such a gorgeous day, but the pool water looks like it is regaining some sparklyness (is that a word)? Hope it's not just wishful thinking.
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- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,890
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
If you are concerned about your swim bag containing algae and/or contaminating the pool, I would clean it before dropping it in. If you chose to leave it in the water for exposure to the chlorine, that's fine as well. Your Dolphin should tolerate the chlorine fine. Many people leave the automated cleaners in while the SLAM continues.
As for the sparklyness, I believe that word can be found in the TFP dictionary right next to sparkliitus-additcus. Once infected by the clear water bug, you'll never look at cloudy water the same again.
As for the sparklyness, I believe that word can be found in the TFP dictionary right next to sparkliitus-additcus. Once infected by the clear water bug, you'll never look at cloudy water the same again.
So now for my pool light story. I tried to pry off what I thought were outer covers to the lights w/o success; I thought I was going to break them (picture of one light in post #28 of this thread). There are six holes around the surface of the cover, so I took an old syringe (minus needle) and injected bleach forcefully into holes. A little junk came out when I did this to the first two lights and a larger amount when I did it to the third light (which is closest to the deep end). This made me go back and try to remove the "covers" again. The good news is I got them off; the bad news is, the "cover" is just a clear ring that covers the screws! There is still some gunk under the actual lens cover, but you can't take the screws out unless you drain the water below the level of the light or disconnect the wires at the box and pull the light out to the pool deck. SO BASICALLY I NEED AN ELECTRICIAN to do anything about this!! I would very cheerfully smack the designer of these lights upside the head!! So I scrubbed everything that I could before putting the rings back on. UGH, I am so frustrated.
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I have been racking may brain about this....uh, can adding Muriatic acid, aka HCl, raise your FC? I know you can't check your pH with the FC too high, so I added MA before starting the SLAM. Maybe this is why my FC was higher than expected???
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- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,890
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Lowering pH with muriatic acid shouldn't effect FC. Unfortunately I don't think that's the culprit.
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