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Thread: Heres the windup...the pitch...

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    Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Now that I have ya'lls attention!

    Greetings from Tulsa! Been a lurker for awhile and finally joined up last month. Its amazing what you can learn by going through almost 300 pages of posts, I must have read and re-read Pool School until I was blue in the face. I even fell asleep with the laptop still on my...well, lap!

    I am the proud owner of a old inground plaster pool (built in the 80's) which came along for the ride with a foreclosed home.

    I was so glad to stumble across this site as the pool needed tons of work. Once we got the home renovations under control I turned my attention to the pool. As soon as I can post pictures I will but please bare with me on my descriptive speech. This thing was just nasty with a capital N. Been sitting unattended for a year. Needless to say I found all sorts of things where swimming, growing and what not once I removed the bank's homemade pool cover of 2x4's and plastic.

    I ended up draining it (built-in hydrostatic valves), and spending two days shoveling garbage out, power washing, then acid washing then bleaching the walls. The light niche was complete mucked up with nasty organic material and algae. Its pretty much clean except for a large stain in the deep end that runs from both corners and across where the walls slope into the floor. Also, a few metal stains where the contractor threw drillbits and screws into the pool after building the cover. Will work on those and hopefully the other stain will bleach out, but I am shocked (no pun intended) the acid wash nor bleaching did the trick on the big stain.

    I patched the cracks in the steps and plaster near the skimmer using a fastset pool plaster. Had to replace the valve, (sadly I replaced with the same slide-pull valve and not a multi-valve), pvc lines and electrical conduit to the 1hp PacFab Challenger pump. Even found and fixed the air leaks (thanks to TFP!), replaced all the sand in the Triton T-60 filter along with the filter cap and pressure gauge. I travel for work so I had to leave that Sunday evening so my fiancee started the fill. Now, its an offset rectangular pool and what I mean by that its 11 feet at the shallow end wide and one side goes out to about 15 feet in the middle and then back to 14 feet wide on the deep end. The other side is a straight 30 foot run from shallow to deep. The shallow end is 3 feet deep and the deep end is 5.5 feet when filled. I calculate its a 13,100 gallon pool. (13 feet x 30 feet x 4 feet using averages)

    I came back that Friday and on Saturday morning, fired up the pump and let it run for 24 hours with a nice even pressure of 12psi.

    With my new T100 kit (Thanks TFP!) I tested the water and my numbers were as follows:

    FC: 0
    CC: 0
    TC: 0
    pH: 7.8
    T/A: 90
    CH: 190
    CYA: 0
    Temp: 68

    While I was gone I had the soon-to-be step son add bleach (Thanks TFP!) and brush the walls. That kept things at bay as I came home to a clear pool. I did go and buy 4 pounds of CYA (per the Pool Calculator) and added that to the pool. I knew (thanks TFP!) that it would take a week so I let the pool alone. (POP!)

    Had to travel on business the following week and came back to these numbers:

    FC: 0
    CC: 0
    TC: 0
    pH: 7.5
    T/A: 110
    CH: 150
    CYA: 20
    Temp: 76 (I bought and put on a solar cover, just need a reel now)

    I have run into a few issues: 1) The soon-to-be stepson doesn't know how to sweep up grass clippings off the pool deck and 2) I found today that the second "hole" in the skimmer is plugged with CYA crystals that haven't dissolved in a week, plus its been raining so I don't know if I should clean out those crystals and wait for those to dissolve as I don't want any problems with my CYA levels.

    I do know I need to get my calcium levels up and was going to add some cal-hypo to kill two birds with one stone. However I come to you all mighty pool wizards for a point in the right direction.

    Tomorrow I had planned on finishing cleaning all the crass clippings out and backwashing but with the CYA problem a bit hesitant to.

    I have a crystal pool now and if I had chlorine in it I probably would have gone swimming today, well, perhaps not with the grass clippings.

    So what say ya'll? (BTW - not from Oklahoma originally, transplanted Philly boy)

    oh and THANKS TFP!
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...


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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Hi and welcome!

    Most definitely clean out that CYA from the skimmer....has the pump been running the whole time? I'm very surprised - it should have dissolved. CYA is a bit acidic so it's not a good idea to leave it clumped there.

    You can use Cal-hypo to raise the CH, it will take a while when using it to raise CH, or you can use Calcium Chloride.

    If you use the "Effects of adding Chems" section on the Pool Calc - look towards the bottom- it tells you how much the calcium will rise when using the Cal-Hypo.

    Hope this helps.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Welcome!

    Sounds like you've been busy! Congratulations on fixing up that back yard swamp! On a side note, so it doesn't get away from you, you should try to get the chlorine up since you've been adding the CYA and it's registering. I wouldn't want to see all your hard work be for nothing.

    Those stains may disappear if you keep your chlorine on the high side for awhile but the rust ones will not. Those are metal. If you lay a vit. c tablet on them, they should clear up.

    Can't wait to see pics!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Welcome to the forum

    Great job!

    We'll be waiting on the pix.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Thanks for all the pointers. Yes, I was surprised that the CYA didn't dissolve. Can that stuff actually go bad to were it won't dissolve? Yep, been really busy. The better half wants to be able to sun herself by her very own pool by Memorial Day!

    Casey - I've been making sure that I've added bleach every other day when I am out of town, as you are right - I don't want it to get away from me. The soon-to-be stepson has been doing that while I am gone. I'll probably spring for the Liquidator that I have been reading about. I have been drafting up some modifications that might work in solving the WS problems that seem to be prevalent.

    I'll be posting the before pics here before I go out and finish cleaning up the rest of the grass clippings - backwash and then I'll suck those out of the skimmer bottom. I'll add the cal-hypo, let it circulate for a few hours then test, head to the store and pick up some calcium. I wonder if the stores will still stock de-icer now that its spring.

    Without further adieu:



    You can see the remnants of the hokey cover off in the upper right corner of this pic. This is about 2 hours into the draining.



    From the shallow end. You can make out the gunk thats laying on the bottom. In some spots it was inches deep. In the deep end I had over 6 inches of garbage laying there. No way chemicals could have gotten all of it.



    3/4 of the way through powerwashing/acidwashing/bleaching. You can make out that large stain thats left running across the bottom of the deep end. All of the walls were that nasty greenish/brown. I thought I was never going to bring her back. The plaster is old and I had to be careful on how long I left the acid mixture on it. Kept my powerwashing nozzle at 40 degrees to keep from blasting the plaster off as its 3000psi power washer.




    Looking back towards the shallow end. You can see the massive amounts of cracks in the steps. All gone now.



    I'll have the after pics here shortly.

    Again, thanks for all the help and encouragement! This place is wonderful, in fact, when I was at a certain, unmentioned, pool store yesterday buying a whale brush I overheard a woman with algae problems and the salesman was having a field day! I wanted to rush up and tell her about this forum. But alas I didn't and she ended up shelling out over $100 for chemicals.
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    BTW - should I be worried about my TA? The Pool Calculator has it a tad lower for a recommendation.
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Casey's Avatar
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    SW PA
    Posts
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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    The TA should be okay if your pH doesn't drift up everytime you turn around. If the pH does, then you can lower it by adding muratic acid to lower pH to 7-7.2 and out gas the TA by adding bubbles. The bubbles will make your pH go up again. It's called aeration. Like I said, if your pH isn't affected, it should be fine. It's not too, too high. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

    That was some yucky water! Can't wait to see it sparkle! 8)
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Thanks Casey! The pH has been holding at 7.5 for at least 2 weeks now. Yeah it was gross. I had to power wash my waders when I was done because of the caked on gunk. Pea-soup anyone?

    On my way out the door now...darn grass clippings.

    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Hi and welcome!

    Most definitely clean out that CYA from the skimmer....has the pump been running the whole time? I'm very surprised - it should have dissolved. CYA is a bit acidic so it's not a good idea to leave it clumped there.

    You can use Cal-hypo to raise the CH, it will take a while when using it to raise CH, or you can use Calcium Chloride.

    If you use the "Effects of adding Chems" section on the Pool Calc - look towards the bottom- it tells you how much the calcium will rise when using the Cal-Hypo.

    Hope this helps.

    You weren't lying when you said its not a good idea to leave it clumped there. Sucked it all out today and the PVC is pitted where the CYA sat. Did find out that that "port" is actually capped off. Doesnt go anywhere and is not even plumbed into the main drain.

    Heads up folks - Walmart (at least locally) has 100% calcium chloride de-icer for $5.00 on clearance. Man oh man do I love simple AND cheap.

    I put in 10 pounds out of the 15 the Pool Calculator stated, brushed really good, and going to let it circulate all night then retest tomorrow to see where I am at. Add the rest as needed. Getting to like this brushing bit, great for the arms and back.

    Got the bleach in today and brought it up to 3 ppm. I'll post numbers tomorrow to see where I stand. Took pics today and the water looked great. Going to be swimming next weekend for sure.

    Thanks again!
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    And heres the "after", after 2 hours of vacumming and skimming all those nasty grass clippings:













    New numbers:

    FC: 5
    CC: 0 (Seems nothing is eating the chlorine up)
    TC: 5
    pH: 7.3
    TA: 90
    CH: 300
    CYA: 20

    I have to add water to the pool and then will rebalance the pH and TA then follow the instructions to add borate. I do need to bring up my CYA and plan on using tri-chlor so I can put it down on those stains to see if they lift.

    Again, thanks for all the encouragement and kind words. To all of you undertaking a similar task - GO FOR IT! If I can do it - you can. Gonna be well worth it this summer.
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    What a transformation! 8) If your stains lift from the trichlor, if you run your FC on the high side and keep brushing, the stains should fade right away.

    Congratulations! Hope you enjoy your pool all summer long!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey
    What a transformation! 8) If your stains lift from the trichlor, if you run your FC on the high side and keep brushing, the stains should fade right away.

    Congratulations! Hope you enjoy your pool all summer long!

    Thanks Casey! We swam in it for the first time this Memorial Day weekend. I can honestly say the borate treatment is the way to go! I have sensitive skin and I didn't suffer once! Thank you TFP!

    As far as the stains - the tri-chlor didn't lift them, neither did a vitamin-c tablet, I am going to get one of those stain id kits and gor from there. I hate that they are there as they make an otherwise beautiful pool quite ugly.
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

  14. Back To Top    #14
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    If the trichlor and Vit C didn't do anything, it's possible they are copper.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    If the trichlor and Vit C didn't do anything, it's possible they are copper.

    I haven't got the stain id tester yet to confirm but thats what I am thinking. They are a blackish stain. When I redid the plumbing on the pad they had a flexi-line plumbed in so they had a inline feeder at one point and I'm thinking they had been using copper. I haven't had my water tested for metals yet to see how much is leaching out of the pipes but I wouldn't suspect that much. Good indicator is that the better half's hair hasn't turned green!

    Now if I can get those stains out using a copper stain remover that means that copper is now in the water. No way to remove it without draining the pool again is there?

    Those metal removers really don't turn it into a filterable crystal do they?
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

  16. Back To Top    #16
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    No - metal removers get the stain/metals out of the pool and suspended back in the water, requiring the use of maintenance doses of sequesterant to keep it in suspension. It can get expensive. I'm honestly surprised the acid wash didn't remove it. Not sure what to tell ya. Since the water is freshly filled, how big is the stain? Maybe it won't be that much? And overtime with water replacement it will drop down....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Heres the windup...the pitch...

    Im surprised as well. Although I am wondering if I even washed that area. So much going on that weekend I could have taken a break and totally forgotten about it.

    The main stain that bothers me is in each corner of the deep end and runs in a band between. The other "stains" are the light brown stain on the walls in the deep end. I still havent had a chance to get an ID kit to find out what they are.

    Worse comes to worse, I'll pull the stain off with a sequestrate and then drain and refill the pool. Our water has zip metals in it so I'd rather not have to deal with if I can help it. Water here is about $2.13 for every 1000 gallons.
    13,100 gal (?) IG Plaster Pool, Rectangular (30 feet long, 11 feet wide at 3 feet deep shallow end, 14 feet wide at 6 feet deep end.)
    Pentair Challenger 1hp 2 speed hardwired pump
    Triton II T60 sand filter
    P153 Intermatic digital timer control
    8 gal Liquidator with 3/8" upgrade

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