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Thread: Sodium Percarbonate Question

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Sodium Percarbonate Question

    I purchased 12 lbs of sodium percarbonate to do the Baquacil conversion which we are going to be doing in another few weeks. Our pool is 20,000 gallons, and according to instructions for using sodium percarbonate, we would need 10 lbs.

    I am just wondering if I should have gotten more of the sodium percarbonate in case 12 lbs isn't enough. So my question is for anyone who used sodium percarbonate, did you end up having to use more than your pool would normally take, and if so, was it quite a bit more? Thanks
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    We don't have nearly as much experience here with sodium percarbonate conversions as we do with straight chlorine conversions. So I am excited to see how yours turns out.

    From what I have seen, 5 lbs of sodium percarbonate for each 10,000 gallons is usually enough. But I have seen cases where it wasn't enough. I imagine it has to do with just how high your baquacil sanitizer level is when you start, but I don't have confirmation of that.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Hopefully Waterbear will chime in on whether you have purchased enough. I have no idea, only witnessed conversions via bleach, and lots of it!

    Good luck with your conversion, be sure to post pics for us...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    here I am chiming in. Whether it's enough really depends on the initial biguanide level when you start. Good news is if it's not enough you can finish the conversion with bleach or liquid chlorine. However, 5lbs per 10k gallons is usually enough. Be sure to give it a full 48 hours to work and then test the biguanide levels. If biguanide is not at zero you have two options, get more sodium percarbonate (If any of the pool supplies around you carry Proteam products their System Support is sodium percarbonate), or start shocking with chlorine to 15 ppm until the conversion is complete.

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    I think I read somewhere that if you overshoot with percarbonate that it leaves you with a large chlorine demand to start up with. Is that accurate? In that case it would be good to underdose with the percarbonate and finish off with chlorine as suggested.

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    I think I read somewhere that if you overshoot with percarbonate that it leaves you with a large chlorine demand to start up with. Is that accurate? In that case it would be good to underdose with the percarbonate and finish off with chlorine as suggested.
    Sodium percarbonate produces hydrogen peroxide which destroys chlorine so if there is a lot of it left over it can create a temporary chlorine demand.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Also, in this situation using too little percarbonate leaves a chlorine demand from the remaining baquacil.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Thank you so much, everyone, for all the great replies. I really appreciate it. Great news that we can finish up with chlorine. I didnt' know that. I also appreciate about the sodium percarbonate product and I'll check our local pool stores to see if they have it. But thinking maybe we should just stick with the 12 pounds and finish with chlorine. I would like to take a sample of my water to be tested now, but since the pool is still closed and nothing has been circulating, do you think it would even be worth it? I'm just really curious how much Baquacil is left. Right now the water is just below the returns, and when we open the pool of course we'd be adding water, so that should dilute the Baquacil. We were advised that we can actually drop the water level down to 1 foot in the shallow end, as long as we fill it right back up (we have a vinyl liner). So I"m wondering before we open the pool, if we should drop the water level down to a foot and then fill it back up. We've got the winter cover on still so I can't see how much water is in the shallow end now.

    I've gotta stop obsessing over this I just can't wait to get it all over with. We also just ordered a salt water generator (an Aqua Rite). I will definitely take some pictures. Should be interesting! Thanks again!
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    I would like to take a sample of my water to be tested now,
    Doing a conversion without a test kit will add to your difficulties. Do you have one?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Draining and refilling will dilute your water, speeding up the process but also making your other numbers like PH, TA, CH etc., possibly change, so those will also have to be adjusted following the conversion. If your water table is a non issue and it's inexpensive for you to refill, I suppose that's an option for you. Its a good idea to test the fill water to make sure there are no surprises like metals or high CH.

    If you haven't ordered a test kit, now is the time to do so....I recommend the TF-100 or the Taylor K-2006. I have the TF-100, and a good test kit is the best investment you'll make for your pool.

    With the conversion, frequent testing of the FC and CC is required, and for that you need the FAS-DPD test (which is included in the kits I mentioned). Without the ability to test the water yourself, frequently, you won't know for sure when your conversion is complete, you'll only be guessing. If you are having the pool store test the water, many times they don't test past 5 for FC and you will need to test higher than that. There's an article in Pool School comparing the test kits, check it out....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    do NOT try to do the conversion without a good test kit. You are going to need to shock the pool after the percarbonate and at first you are going to have a bit of a chlorine demand, this is normal. With out a good (read that as an FAS-DPD) test for free and combined chlorine you are going to have problems. You are going to need the test kit anyway to take care of your pool (do not depend on the pool store! I've worked in them and know what I talk about...they want to sell you chemicals!)

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Thanks, Waterbear and Duraleigh -

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I would like to take a sample of my water to be tested now,
    Doing a conversion without a test kit will add to your difficulties. Do you have one?
    I don't yet but I'm going to be ordering the TF100 today. I just hope it's not too complicated for someone who is chemically challenged!
    Will that be a good test kit for my purposes? I know it won't test for Baquacil levels but we have a spa/pool store that we can take water samples to.

    I hope you guys won't mind too much all the questions I'm going to have once I start the conversion. I've read and printed out all the pool school articles but it still seems confusing, especially using a test kit and figuring out everything.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    THe TF-100 is the one I would recommend (I have it myself) and it's very simple. My 11yo helped me test yesterday...

    It is all you need... get your water tested for the Baq residual once, then do the Sodium stuff, you can test again for the Baq at the pool store (if you want), but once you proceed with the chlorine part all you'll need to test for, for awhile is FC/CC via the FAS-DPD.

    They ship it out fast. You'll have it in about a week, sometimes less!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Thanks very much, FrustratedPoolMom (love the user name I'm going to order it today. I've never used a test kit before and it just looks complicated.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    The TF 100 and the Taylor K-2006 are the test kits that the vast majority of our members use. Many of them express a bit of fear that it's going to be "too hard for them" until the kit arrives and they actually see how easy (and fun) it is. IMHO, testing your pool is a LOT easier than baking a cake! (I have no problems testing a pool but if you ever saw one of my cakes you would be wondering why I have not been arrested for abusing and torturing flour! )

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    ROFL! Well I bet your cakes taste good, Waterbear

    I do like challenges (I built the computer I'm posting from) but my understanding of chemicals is below zero. I couldn't even understand the Baquacil test strips.

    I'm getting ready to place my order for the TF100 and just wonder if I should also purchase any refills (since there's a $15 min), or does the test kit usually last a whole season?
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    If your pool was already converted and water in good shape, the kit would probably last a couple of years.

    Because of the conversion, you will use a bunch of the R-0870 and R-0871 (That for the high chlorine test). You don't really save a bunch of money because those are the two expensive refills and will total right at $15.00 but you will save the shipping of around $5.25 if you have to order the refills later.

    It's really a WAG to decide if you'll actually need the refills. I'm tempted to say not to order them until it becomes obvious you will run out. But if I do, surely you will run out at a critical juncture of your conversion and curse me for suggesting that!! The chemistry is quite long-lasting if you choose to get the extra.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Thanks, Dave, I think I"ll just order the test kit for now. Hopefully I won't have to curse you later Since the 0870 and 0871 are above the $15 min, I'll just worry about it later if I run out.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: Sodium Percarbonate Question

    Quote Originally Posted by mickey4paws
    I do like challenges (I built the computer I'm posting from) but my understanding of chemicals is below zero.
    If you can install a motherboard then testing a pool will be a piece of cake! Remember, we are here to hold your hand until you get your feet wet (pun inteneded! )

    I couldn't even understand the Baquacil test strips.
    That's because 'guess strips' are much harder to read and use than a good test kit! Truth!
    You will be fine. I predict that by this time next year you will have a very good understanding of pool water chemistry. It's really not that hard to get the basics down.

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