10" Pool Light 6 inches from pool bottom

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nuttyp

nuttyp

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LifeTime Supporter
Nov 23, 2014
213
Naples/Florida
Pool Size
16000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Does anyone see a problem with having a pool light 6" from the bottom of the pool?

I've been trying for months to convince my new neighbor not to shell out $40K to make his pool more shallow. Along with others, I failed to convince him of the risks. And it’s his pool, he wants more safety. He intends to have a contractor add 1.5 feet of cement in the deep end to change it from 6 feet deep to 4.5 feet. The added cement will of course taper as it approaches the already-shallower end.

The other day I noticed another problem with his plan. The existing 10" light niche is on a wall in that deep end, and it's already installed lower than usual because of a 2 foot deep shelf/step built into that entire end. If he proceeds, the result of adding 1.5 feet of cement will leave that 10" light niche about 6 inches from the newly raised bottom of the pool. I've not yet thought of any real problem with that, although it may look odd and of course "uncentered" - and perhaps light distribution may be more uneven than usual. The pool is a 14x25 rectangle, about 11,000 gallons, and the light is on one of the shorter 14 foot walls, with the 10" niche rim starting about 2 feet from the bottom at this time. The light niche is a rather standard 10", he'll be replacing the 12V luminaire which is shot.

Thoughts welcome and appreciated. I think he should perhaps have the contractor relocate a new niche to a more typical depth (min per code of course) and to do so move it to one of the longer pool walls. Or just modernize the lighting. Better to abandon the entire project but it seems several of us neighbors cannot talk him out of it.

Thanks in advance.
 
JamesW said:
Why is everyone getting so much into the neighbor's business?

Is he asking for your advice?

Do you feel like he is not competent?
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Well, if you must know, he's a nice guy, a good man, and we both enjoy chatting about various home projects and helping each other and other neighbors, especially during storms, but really all the time. The perfect sort of neighbor you want, that I want, that he wants - we've discussed that too, as it's all rather intrinsic to our core Christian faith. And yes he asked for advice, we both do, all the time. Speaking of faith and of "being asked", I sometimes pray that we will find a way to be more kind in how we answer people on TFP. I say that because, with all respect, I really just asked for opinions about the light, not about how to go about befriending my neighbors. I don't think it's really my place to judge his competence, nor yours, sometimes not even mine ;) Thanks for responding.

ajw22 said:
Suggest your neighbor join TFP if he wants to discuss his project.
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Thanks Allen (y) I've made that TFP suggestion many times, to him and to many folks who ask for pool related advice. Some folks just seem to resist internet and social media in general, it's hard to explain, but I try to help anyway. Fortunately (and gratefully) there are many contributors to TFP who have posted about making their pools more shallow, the costs and trade-offs, etc. I passed those along to my friend, leaving a breadcrumb trail to TFP, it's all I can think to do. I just haven't run across anyone with a light mounted so low, but you inspire me to do more searching! And so I hope, as always, to expose the issue to TFP users who might have an opinion, thereby benefitting others too. ... Off to church soon on this fine Sunday 'morn :)
 
Searching (before posting) turns out to be very helpful, LOL. This is a great thread from 10 years ago about light locations. Where to put pool lights And Allen comments 5 years ago in other threads about light dispersal bieng better if the light is higher vs lower.
 
nuttyp said:
I don't think it's really my place to judge his competence,
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That wasn't James's point. The point was that if its more important that the neighbor makes his pool shallower, then light placement takes a back seat.

Unless they are incompetent and you should step in. If not, this is just like pool care. The neighbor doesn't want to know what you think. They want you to agree with how they think.

You mentioned he wanted a safe pool, is that the motivation to make it shallower ?
 
nuttyp said:
Better to abandon the entire project but it seems several of us neighbors cannot talk him out of it.
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I guess that I took it as the neighbor heard you and your neighbors and made a decision and you were not willing to let it go.

In any case, I should have focused on the question about the light placement and not the relationship between you and your neighbors.

"Luminaires shall be installed in such a manner that personnel can reach the lumiaire for relamping, maintenance, or inspection while on the deck or equivalently dry location."

There is no Maximum depth specified, but the NEC specifies that the light should be accessible.

680.23(A)(5) limits the MINIMUM depth that an underwater luminaire may be installed at 18" (4" if listed for that depth) below the normal water level of a pool.

680.23(B)(6) adds further requirements (without specific limits) on the MAXIMUM depth below the normal water level. It states, "Luminaires shall be installed in such a manner that personnel can reach the lumiaire for relamping, maintenance, or inspection while on the deck or equivalently dry location."

We, as a jurisdiction are using 24" below the normal water level to the center of the luminaire as a maximum (based on average(?) arm length).

We have a contractor wishing to install a custom pool with a side spa. The wet niche fixture to be installed in the spa is shown in the face of the lowest "step" in the spa. This would put the center of the luminaire at approximately 36" below the normal water level in the spa. (this spa is part of the custom pool, not self-contained). (680.43(B)(2) states that underwater luminaires in spas shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33)

Has anyone dealt with this code issue as yet? This article (680.23(B)(6)) IS new in the 2005 NEC. We are on the 2007 California Electrical Code, which is basically the 2005 NEC as written (the only one CA did like that!). I was not able to find any threads on the subject. Any input or insight would be helpful for us to properly enforce this code.

Custom swimming pool installations where the pool is incorporated as an architectural feature of a building or structure can present access problems for those who have to change the lamps of an underwater luminaire. In some cases, the length of the flexible cord connected to a wet-niche luminaire does not permit the luminaire to be removed from the pool for relamping or servicing. To address the concern over a person having to be in the pool in order to change lamps, this requirement specifies that the underwater luminaire installation has to be made such that changing of the lamp occurs on the pool deck or other dry location outside of the pool, and the location can be accessed without having to enter the pool water.
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680.23(A)(5) and (B)(6)

680.23(A)(5) limits the MINIMUM depth that an underwater luminaire may be installed at 18" (4" if listed for that depth) below the normal water level of a pool. 680.23(B)(6) adds further requirements (without specific limits) on the MAXIMUM depth below the normal water level. It states...
forums.mikeholt.com
 
(6) Servicing. All wet-niche luminaires shall be removable from the water for inspection, relamping, or other maintenance.

The forming shell location and length of cord in the forming shell shall permit personnel to place the removed luminaire on the deck or other dry location for such maintenance.

The luminaire maintenance location shall be accessible without entering or going in the pool water.
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In my opinion, the light should be centered on the wall for best effect.

Too high or too low will provide poor coverage.

Too low will also amplify any imperfections in the plaster due to the lighting angle.
 

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Depth Considerations
Deep ends (greater than 12 feet): Place lights between 18–24 inches below the waterline.

Shallow ends: Lights should be 9–12 inches below the surface.

Tanning shelves: Lights should sit 4 inches below the waterline to create a soft shimmer.

Spas: Lights should be placed below the bench or in the footwell to prevent guests from blocking the light when seated.

www.jdesigns.com

The Ultimate Guide for Swimming Pool Lighting

Learn to choose the ideal pool lighting design with tips on LED placement, safety, and the necessary number of lights for a professional setup.
www.jdesigns.com www.jdesigns.com
 
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