What assurances/warranty to ask for with questionable gunite application?

hooraysimpsons

Bronze Supporter
Nov 2, 2024
16
nc
Hello. I've been reading on here for a bit during design and planning for my pool. Finally in construction phase. Gunite is in the process of being done and they are having a lot of issues. Something about the sand being wrong and too much humidity. I've been told it will all be done correctly and its just going to take longer. I'm a little concerned about the amount of trimmings ending up in the pool floor. They say it's an 'acceptable' amount.

I don't think we are at the point of needing to 'redo' it all. My question is what kind of warranty/assurances would be enough to cover me if there are issues. My understanding is that the shell 'lifetime' warranties thrown around aren't really useful. Is there some kind of specific language on a warranty I should be asking for?

Thanks everyone
 
Welcome to TFP.

Language in a warranty is only as good as the company standing behind it.

You need to understand what the consumer protection laws in NC are, if pool contractors are licensed, or required to put up performance bonds with the State to resolve consumer complaints.

If you are concerned you should get advice from a lawyer familiar with NC consumer protection laws and not on the Internet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirk
Welcome to TFP.

Language in a warranty is only as good as the company standing behind it.

You need to understand what the consumer protection laws in NC are, if pool contractors are licensed, or required to put up performance bonds with the State to resolve consumer complaints.

If you are concerned you should get advice from a lawyer familiar with NC consumer protection laws and not on the Internet.
Thank you. I wrote that quickly at work and didn't ask the question I meant to ask but you did answer the one I asked originally.

I'm a few steps prior to lawyers, performance bonds. We are relying on our PBs expertise and trying to avoid any homeowner research and interference into the process. We have been working well with the PB. Just looking for knowledge, anecdotes like:

If there are issues with the gunite shell you will see ____________ within __________ months/years
OR
If you make it the first _____ years without problems then you are unlikely to find long term issues

So I can have a discussion with the pool builder to make some agreements like:
If an of these issues occur XXX, YYY, ZZZ in certain timeframe would be example of gunite issues that we have agreed to address under our stated warranty.


He is usually quick to give these kind of assurances. I'm just not sure what kind of assurance would be helpful from a gunite perspective.
 
He is usually quick to give these kind of assurances. I'm just not sure what kind of assurance would be helpful from a gunite perspective.

Got any pictures of the concern? This kind of question belongs way before the work starts. Once it starts, you might as well ride it out unless the builder actually likes the feedback or you are very positive something is wrong.

Make sure what’s written in the contract is actually completed per the contract using measurements or pictures. The craftsmanship standards of today are very different from 40 years ago so be careful how picky you are.

Assurances during the build are not useful. He’s either competent, or he’s not. Even a hack will assure you he’s doing a good job. 😉

At some point you just have to trust the guy. I say, unless something is obviously not right, let him do the job you hired him to do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Newdude
Thank you. I wrote that quickly at work and didn't ask the question I meant to ask but you did answer the one I asked originally.

I'm a few steps prior to lawyers, performance bonds. We are relying on our PBs expertise and trying to avoid any homeowner research and interference into the process. We have been working well with the PB. Just looking for knowledge, anecdotes like:

If there are issues with the gunite shell you will see ____________ within __________ months/years
OR
If you make it the first _____ years without problems then you are unlikely to find long term issues

So I can have a discussion with the pool builder to make some agreements like:
If an of these issues occur XXX, YYY, ZZZ in certain timeframe would be example of gunite issues that we have agreed to address under our stated warranty.


He is usually quick to give these kind of assurances. I'm just not sure what kind of assurance would be helpful from a gunite perspective.
Usually the rule of thumb is that once you pay the final draw; it's your problem.
A good idea is to get a second opinion or inspection by a neutral party before proceeding too far.
 
I think Allen has you on the right track. If you are trying to alleviate your concerns about potential future problems with your construction project by modifying the terms of your current warranty, the wording is probably critical to achieving that goal. That's if your builder is even willing to modify the terms now, which would be a miracle in and of itself. Why should he? Why would he? Even if you're only trying to get him to provide some additional written agreement, separate from the actual contract, to better define the existing warranty, I'm not sure how legally binding that would be. I think it would have to be a more official amendment to the contract to have real value.

Keep in mind that making the warranty more specific, however it's done, might have the opposite effect of what you're after. By that I mean, phrases like "If any of these issues occur XXX, YYY, ZZZ..." might negate the warranty from covering issues AAA, BBB, CCC if they occur instead. You might be better off with a more all-encompassing general statement, something that includes terms like "standards and practices" or the like. And that's something probably only a qualified NC construction attorney, with experience in litigating such things, could properly formulate. Or that same attorney could confirm that the wording in your current warranty already covers that.

Possible Alternatives

Was your pool engineered? Are there any engineering specs for the gunite? I ask because you could potentially use those specs, along with a proper core sample test, to find out now if the gunite was properly installed. I'd be floored if those specs existed, let alone were part of your contract, because residential contractors just don't generally provide such things. And the testing/coring is not a simple thing. But it is done. It is a thing. (Just not generally with pool construction.)

Or you could call in a third-party expert (typically another pool builder) to evaluate your gunite for proper installation. That's if you could find a local guy that's willing to potentially bad mouth another local guy.

Keep in mind that those two alternatives, or anything else you do that communicates your lack of confidence with the builder, or hints at potential future litigation, might only serve to get you less pool than you'd get otherwise. Nobody likes somebody looking over their shoulder (even if it's justified). And it could serve to impact the builder's enthusiasm to do a first-class job (even if subliminally).

What you're seeking is not unreasonable, it's just not particularly realistic to expect it can happen after you've signed a contract. But given the six figures you're probably investing, it might be worth three figures to get some assurances from a construction attorney. Your best-case scenario is that the current wording in the warranty already has you covered.
 
If you really have concerns, you could core drill some sample cores and have them tested for thickness and strength.

The other issue is the stability of the soil.

If the soil was not properly analyzed by a geotechnical engineer, it might have issue like settling that could crack even good concrete.

What type of soil do you have?

Was the soil tested?

Soil can be core drilled to analyze was soil you have.

What were the specs on the concrete like thickness, PSI, rebar diameter, rebar spacing etc?

Core drilling samples in the concrete and soil would be expensive and also a delicate situation with the builder, so you have to decide if your concern is sufficient to go that route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirk
My understanding is that the shell 'lifetime' warranties thrown around aren't really useful.
IMO, any warranty is only worth what the company feels it's reputation is.

If they meant it when they shook your hand and said/implied they'd take good care of you, you're golden.

If they didn't mean it, or it becomes too difficult/expensive at some point, they'll find a loophole when you need them the most.

Even with an airtight contract, nothing makes them pay the judgement if you win in court. Or nothing says you'll break even with what it cost you to get there if they do pay.

That all said, a good contract certainly won't hurt you. Aim for the moon. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirk and JamesW

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
We need to understand what problems the builder is having to advise you on what may go wrong.

Something about the sand being wrong and too much humidity.

The sand on your property or the sand in the gunite mix?

What is the problem with the sand?

what is the “wrong” sand and what would have been the right sand?

I've been told it will all be done correctly and its just going to take longer.

Shooting gunite is a one day job.

What will take longer?

How much longer?

Give us the whole story.

Where are you in the build?

Show us pictures of what you have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirk
TFP is a registered 501(c)3 non-profit that is maintained by user donations.

The people who answer questions are volunteers.

If you find the site to be a good resource, please consider making a donation to help support the site.

Thanks.

 
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.