Pool equipment update
- Thread starter Pesh
- Start date
I am planning on just using all Siemens GFCI breakers : 3 x Q220GF and 2 x QF120A assuming they will fit in my panel as replacements for my current non-GFCI SquareD Homeline 20 Amp breakers (HOM220CP and HOM120CP respectively) .
My current configuration is: 3 x double-pole 20A (HOM220CP) + 1 x single-pole 20A (HOM120CP).
After I get my new equipment and have to re-wire, i am leaning towards: 3 x double-pole 20A gfci (Q220GF) + 2 x single-pole 20A gfci (QF120A).
My current configuration is: 3 x double-pole 20A (HOM220CP) + 1 x single-pole 20A (HOM120CP).
After I get my new equipment and have to re-wire, i am leaning towards: 3 x double-pole 20A gfci (Q220GF) + 2 x single-pole 20A gfci (QF120A).
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It is a Siemens Load center.
Also, the door shows the acceptable breakers, which include the Siemens.
And, the Pentair Breakers are the same ones, so they will work in a Pentair load center.
Also, the door shows the acceptable breakers, which include the Siemens.
And, the Pentair Breakers are the same ones, so they will work in a Pentair load center.
View attachment 627293
This looks like the newer Load Center where the breakers are off to the left side. Mine is an older version where the breakers are in the middle.
This looks like the newer Load Center where the breakers are off to the left side. Mine is an older version where the breakers are in the middle.
Ahultin
Bronze Supporter
- Aug 19, 2021
- 1,597
- Pool Size
- 17700
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
1. Yes they are the same width but longer
2. Check the equipment specs and load balance accordingly such that the 20amp does not exceed 16amp constant (80%)
Ex. My intelliflo is ~11amp at max, mastertemp is ~2amp and 1hp spa blower is ~2.4amps - i have all three on the filter pump breaker and total draw at max ( but I never run it there) is under 16 amps
3. Anything you want within the limits of your feed. I fed the panel with 2ga copper so it has a 100 amp main breaker - lots of headroom. I have landscape lights, equipment light, autofill valve, additional receptacles and more all fed thru the pool panel.
When I upgraded my IntelliTouch to IntelliCenter, there was a giant sticker that Pentair had me put over much of the old information.
What was causing me to question the Siemens breaker compatibility, I removed the single-pole HOM120CP and test fit the Siemens QF120A, and the Siemens breaker didnt sit completely tight against the bus. It was a bit "springy". However, when I tried the same Siemens breaker in the free 1-pole slot under the right-side double-pole 20A, it fit fine.
What was causing me to question the Siemens breaker compatibility, I removed the single-pole HOM120CP and test fit the Siemens QF120A, and the Siemens breaker didnt sit completely tight against the bus. It was a bit "springy". However, when I tried the same Siemens breaker in the free 1-pole slot under the right-side double-pole 20A, it fit fine.
Ahultin
Bronze Supporter
- Aug 19, 2021
- 1,597
- Pool Size
- 17700
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
@Ahultin - thanks!
I just ordered Siemens 1-pole (QF120A) and 2-pole (Q220GF) GFCI breakers to test fit. The 1-pole came today and the 2-pole tomorrow.
Good tip on the Amp calculation. Here is what I'm looking at:
240V Equipment:
I just ordered Siemens 1-pole (QF120A) and 2-pole (Q220GF) GFCI breakers to test fit. The 1-pole came today and the 2-pole tomorrow.
Good tip on the Amp calculation. Here is what I'm looking at:
240V Equipment:
- Pool / Spa Main Pump : 12.4A
- Plan A : IntelliFlo3 3HP -12.4A
- Water Fall Pump : 16A
- Plan A : IntelliFlo VS3050 - 16A
- Plan B : WhisperFlo 3/4HP - 6A
- Cleaner Booster Pump : 6.5A
- Plan A : PuriTech UniBoost - 5.8A
- Plan B : Pentair LA01N - 6.5A
- Plan C : Jandy PB-60 - 6.4A
- MasterTemp 400 - 2.5A
- Air Supply 1HP Spa Blower - 2.5A
- 240V Max Total : 12.4A + 16A + 6.5A + 2.5A + 2.5A = 39.9A
- 240V Breaker #1 : IntelliFlo3 only (12.4A)
- 240V Breaker #2 : IntelliFlo VS3050 (16A Total)
- 240V Breaker #3 : Cleaner Booster Pump (6.5A) & Heater (2.5A) & Spa Blower (2.5A) (11.5A Total)
- Pool Light 1 (Pentair Arch Series) - 0.3A (28W / 120V)
- Pool Light 2 (Pentair Arch Series) - 0.3A (28W / 120V)
- Spa Light (Pentair Arch Series) - 0.2A (18W / 120V)
- GFCI Outlet - TBD AMPs, but virtually 0A since nothing is plugged into it
- Low Voltage Yard Light Transformer - <5A
- LED Work Light - 0.5A (60W / 120V)
- 120V Total : 0.3A + 0.3A + 0.2A + 5A + 0.5A = 6.3Amps
- 120V Breaker #1 : Pool Light 1 + Pool Light 2 + Spa Light (0.8A total)
- 120V Breaker #2 : GFCI + LED Work Light + Yard Light Transformer (5.5A total)
Very nicely done. Did you wire yourself? I'm going to attempt to re-wire my entire Load Center with clear labeling and more structured wiring as part of my equipment / plumbing update.
Mind sharing any tips? even your color coding scheme would be helpful.
Ahultin
Bronze Supporter
- Aug 19, 2021
- 1,597
- Pool Size
- 17700
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
1 Change - since your pool lights are 120v, I'm relatively certain they have to be gfci protected. Run the gfci convenience receptacle off of 120v breaker 1 and run the lights through the load side of that receptacle.
But if the breaker itself is a GFCI breaker, doesnt that address the 120V pool/spa GFCI issue?
Ahultin
Bronze Supporter
- Aug 19, 2021
- 1,597
- Pool Size
- 17700
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
We had "issues" with our pool contractor such that I did the initial feed wiring in the panel, the intellicenter and swg transformers, the rv sub panel feed and the surge suppressor. His "electrician" then wired the pumps/heater/lights. I went back in and redid the lights and added everything else.
Simce you are redoing what is there, short of pulling new wire which is not time or cost effective, just maintain the color schemes as is and take your time!
Missed that - yes you are good to go
RE: Rewiring
My current wiring (see picture) is a complete embarrassment and cluster and no rhyme / reason. No labeling to speak of. My conduit supplying to Load Center and running to equipment is 10+ years old, cracking and in desperate need of replacement. Consequently, I'm going to be replacing conduit, wires, fittings, etc.
The only wires that i dont plan to fuss with are the main 240V supply and the pool / spa 120V wires. Everything else is localized between the equipment pad and the panel, making it easily accessible and relatively short runs (< 20').
RE: GFCI Outlet / GFCI Breaker
I was just watching a Youtube video by Craig Wooster (Basic Pool Electrical Wiring Module 2) and he strongly recommends against GFCI Breaker supplying a GFCI Outlet. Personally, I dont see the harm. Especially, if I dont have anything on the "Load" side of the outlet.
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You don't want two GFCIs on the same circuit. They don't play nice with each other.
It can work, and it can also behave erratically. In my first house I added a gfci outlet on a gfci breaker leg without realizing it and I figured it out when it didn't work. So in my sample size of exactly 1, they didn't play nice together.
@JamesW I stumbled upon the Mike Holts forum thread, and then tried the same. It worked for me as well. GFCI functionality is retained -- TEST / RESET works. Incidentally it also tripped when we were using an extension cord outside from one of the receptacles that was slightly wet. A torroidal choke essentially acts as an inductor and filters high frequency noise.
@Pesh Yes. GFCI to the equipment pad, and near the equipment, have this installed inside a 2-gang box. You run several loops (same number for L1 / L2 / GND). Pump is wired for 220V, so skipped the Neutral. If 110V, you would do: Line, Neutral and Ground.
However, one disclaimer: based on my testing, GFCI functionality is retained (TEST / RESET & real-life wet condition usages), & my reading indicates other than filtering high frquency noise, it should not prevent current imbalances measured by GFCI in case of real faults. I have seen chokes used in power supply wires, and this is a similar concept. This is mainly to help folks who faced issues like me once upgrading to GFCI (inherited an old pool with no GFCI / bonding at equipment pad and really poor workmanship in wiring in equipment pad that I took care).
