On a general level, I understand the rationale for components to be bonded together. However, something that confuses me about the safety of the water bond to the equipotential loop is that the bond lug on the pump has a path to the equipment ground via the motor housing. Consequently, the pump, ladder, water, etc are also connected to the service panel ground via the equipment ground at the pump. So what happens if an electrical short occurs somewhere (say the pump), and current travels along the ground wire? Since the pump ground also has a path to the water bond via the bonding loop, what happens to the current that is fed into the pool water? Isn’t the bonding loop and everything connected (water included) energized via the short? For the sake of this scenario, let’s suppose the GFCI fails or is nonoperational.
Can water bonding introduce electrical current?
- Thread starter Transy416
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,062
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Watch...
You can swim in energized water as long as everything you touch is equipotential. That is the whole point of equipotential bonding.
You can swim in energized water as long as everything you touch is equipotential. That is the whole point of equipotential bonding.
Thanks. I’ve heard of the video, but not seen a copy yet. I will have to watch the video.
Let me present this scenario though….in a vinyl lined pool with no light fixtures and a wooden deck, it seems the potential for energized water would only be via the water bond. Thus, why have the water bond in such a scenario?
Let me present this scenario though….in a vinyl lined pool with no light fixtures and a wooden deck, it seems the potential for energized water would only be via the water bond. Thus, why have the water bond in such a scenario?
The bond is not just for energized water. It’s to equalize voltage coming from anywhere, the dirt, the vinyl, stray power company voltage, faulty panel, etc.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,062
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
When the Boom Box powered by a 120V extension cord falls in the pool.
I understand that bonding is to equalize voltage. I didn’t realize voltage could come from the vinyl liner though, since I didn’t think the vinyl was conductive.
“Boom box” made me laugh, but fair enough.
So in that scenario the water bond would theoretically save a person since the voltage would have somewhere to go. I’ve not had time to watch the video in its entirety, but I will.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,062
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
No, the water bond may save someone if everything they touch is at equipotential.
You do not understand what equipotential means and what it does.
How can a bird land on a power line and sit there and not get electrocuted?
I don’t believe it comes from the vinyl itself but water touching the vinyl can conduct voltage and water/materials outside the vinyl can conduct a different voltage. You don’t want that.
I guess it would have been more accurate to say that the voltage can travel from the water via the water bond, and the voltage can thereby be at the same potential with everything touching the bonding loop?
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,062
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I’m still in the process of watching all the Mike Holt videos, but per this video it sounds like bonding wouldn’t save a person in the boom box scenario.
He says in the video that’s only true if it wasn’t GFCI protected. So just make sure those are installed outside.
- May 3, 2007
- 18,067
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
It is voltage gradients (differentials dV/dR) that cause problems. If the voltage on one side of your body is higher than the other side of your body, that is when current will travel through your body causing a shock. If all the water is at the same potential no matter how high it is, then no shock will occur.
Water has a much higher resistance than does copper wire so voltage gradients are more likely in the water than they are between properly bonded points.
However, in the case of the boom box, the GFCI should trip immediately so that would not be an issue. But even without a GFCI, nearly all of the current would travel from the hot wire to the neutral wire as that is the path of least resistance since the two wires are in very close proximity. Very little current would travel outside of the boom box in this case so there would be very tiny voltage gradients outside of the boom box.
Shocks are really only an issue if only the hot wire enters the pool and the return path to ground is through all of the water. However, even in this case, and assuming no GFCI, one of the benefits of a large body of water is that the effective resistance from the hot wire to ground, effectively goes to zero except at where the wire enters the water. The effect of this is that the voltage gradients are very small and get smaller as 1/R2 from the entrance point of voltage.
Water has a much higher resistance than does copper wire so voltage gradients are more likely in the water than they are between properly bonded points.
However, in the case of the boom box, the GFCI should trip immediately so that would not be an issue. But even without a GFCI, nearly all of the current would travel from the hot wire to the neutral wire as that is the path of least resistance since the two wires are in very close proximity. Very little current would travel outside of the boom box in this case so there would be very tiny voltage gradients outside of the boom box.
Shocks are really only an issue if only the hot wire enters the pool and the return path to ground is through all of the water. However, even in this case, and assuming no GFCI, one of the benefits of a large body of water is that the effective resistance from the hot wire to ground, effectively goes to zero except at where the wire enters the water. The effect of this is that the voltage gradients are very small and get smaller as 1/R2 from the entrance point of voltage.
Blackdirt Cowboy
Gold Supporter
- Aug 16, 2024
- 96
- Pool Size
- 17300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I’m just glad that there are people that know and understand electricity. I can’t see it, so I don’t trust it.
- May 23, 2015
- 25,693
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Allen (@ajw22 ) is trying to be cool acting like he’s from the Sony Walkman era when we all know that he keeps his Victrola poolside …
The question is - how much extra does he have to pay the butler to stand there and wind the hand crank when the turntable starts to slow
The question is - how much extra does he have to pay the butler to stand there and wind the hand crank when the turntable starts to slow
Last edited:
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,062
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The vinyl was a technical advance from my beloved wax cylinders. Cranking are why you have children.Allen (@ajw22 ) is trying to be cool acting like he’s from the Sony Walkman era when we all that he keeps his Victrola poolside …
View attachment 608629
The question is - how much extra does he have to pay the butler to stand there and wind the hand crank when the turntable starts to slow
- Jun 24, 2021
- 15,880
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
The beeswax cylinders were just a technical advance of my beloved phonautograph, invented by French inventor Edouard-Leon Scott de Martinville in 1857. I'm so behind the times...
Yes, the circuit for the pool pump and heat pump are on GFCI breakers, as well as all the outdoor receptacles in the area around the pool.