slightly Elevated CYA

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J

JC327

Member
Jun 13, 2023
14
Newyork
So I'm going on day 6 now trying to Dial my pool in

18' round pool 7630 gallons
EC40 DE 1hp pump
Frog unit with mineral dispenser bac pac & torpedo pac

I started out Sunday with my phosphates very high about 2000PPb CYA elevated 147 PH very low 6.4 TA very low at 45 CH was low at 65 as well

the water was clear but my chemistry was all out of wack

To keep it short I have drained the pool down 10" on Tuesday then about another 12" last night

my tap's PH is 7.1 so I knew I needed to give that a slight bump

WED I added 3 lbs ok Baking soda to give my Alkalinity a bump

last night 2lbs of Soda ash after adding fresh water to give my ph A bump

I know pool store tests are not the most reliable I need to invest in a real liquid test kit they are a bit pricy so for now I am using the pool store test as a guideline

todays test came back pretty good I'm happy where two of the tests are

here are my results after dosing with Baking soda on WED and Ash last night after x2 drains of 10" and 12"

FC 7.24
TC 7.24
PH 7.4 came up from 6.4 which I am happy about
TA 80 which jumped from 45
CH is still low that is at 87
CYA this is my concern though it went down from 147 it is still at 119
Phosphates 524

so with the two small water dumps and adding the soda & ash I got my PH where I want and the TA is almost there the CA is still low and the CYA is still a bit high

Do you feel i need to do another water dump to lower that CYA even further

I've never had a such an out of balance pool when opening it before I've used the Frog for close to 4 years or so now with no issue(I know most guys on here are not a fan of the frog but I've never had issues with algae or cloudy water ever so I've just kept going with works to me the water feels very comfortable to swim in and sometimes not all the time when my daughter swims in another pool she has sensitive skin she gets a little itchy never with our own pool though so I've stuck with what works)

any way I cannot pinpoint where this CYA came from I have not changed anything except what I added to the pool when I first opened it for whatever reason Instead of adding a gallon of liquid bleach to open up and shock my pool I threw green out in.Throwing the green out in is the only thing I can think of that elevated my CYA levels as I did nothing different unless King technolgy changed their formula in their torpedo packs I'm thinking the CYA came from the green out

it is what it is now there is no way of removing it from what I hear without dumping water

From your guys experience given my pool size and filtering system do you feel I need to do another water dump

the pool sits in direct sunlight probably around 6 hours a day from about 12 noon once the sun comes over my Eastern tree line until about 6 or so once it ducks down in the West and my Gazebo starts to cast a shadow over my pool so its a good 5-6 hours of straight sunlight.

Like mentioned though I've never had issues before I'm just spinning my wheels this year trying to get this pool balanced out in the past I dumped a gallon of bleach in and I was good to go with minimal tinkering with the chemistry until this year which again leads me back to the one thing I changed which was going with the Green out


Thanks Guys
 
JC327 said:
Frog unit with mineral dispenser bac pac & torpedo pac
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JC327 said:
I know pool store tests are not the most reliable I need to invest in a real liquid test kit they are a bit pricy so for now I am using the pool store test as a guideline
Click to expand...
Get rid of the frog unit and the money you'll save on those pacs alone along with not buying all the "Shocks, Flocs and other crocks" the pool store sells you will be enough to buy us all a Taylor K2006C with Speed Stir, TF-100 or TF-PRO.

Seriously though. The FROG system is adding unwanted junk to your water. Metals especially. You could even go to a saltwater system so you could run a lower FC level and the water would be FAR cleaner and less chlorinated than anyone who doesn't follow TFP.

Pool store tests are a waste of paper. They literally exist to sell you expensive stuff you don't need. If the tests weren't coming out with things "wrong", they wouldn't be able to sell you anything. Pool Stores care about your money, not your pool. TFP cares about your pool, not your money.

But for funsies, let's pretend the test is accurate:
JC327 said:
FC 7.24
TC 7.24
PH 7.4 came up from 6.4 which I am happy about
TA 80 which jumped from 45
CA is still low that is at 87
CA this is my concern though it went down from 147 it is still at 119
Phosphates 524
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FC - For 120 CYA, you're still far too low. By summarization, you'd need about 10 ppm minimum and 13-15 target. That's a lot of FC. Anything lower and you aren't sanitizing.
TC - At least you don't have any CC.
pH: 7.4 is good. Anything in the 7's is good. Don't stress over 7.2 being "too low" as it's not.
TA: 80 is good. 45 was actually just slighly low. It's all a relationship with your pH.
CA -- I'm assume CH here: 87 is good, unless you have plaster. 50-550 is considered ideal for vinyl pools. Lower than 50 is okay, as long as your water doesn't get frothy. If it does, then raise CH.
CYA: Way too high, especially for a non SWG. Still too high for an SWG.
Phosphates: Does not matter at all. Keep FC above minimum for CYA at all times and you'll not have algae.
 
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For giggles, let's "assume" the pool store numbers above are correct:
1 - Your FC is low compared to your elevated CYA as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. You are susceptible to algae.
2 - You have a vinyl pool, so unless you have a heater, a low CH doesn't matter.
3 - Leave the TA and pH alone. As long as the pH is anywhere between 7.2-7.8 it's good. You have LOTS of flexibility with TA. But for simplicity, anywhere from about 60 - 100 you are fine.
4 - Frog system - copper. You probably exchange a fair amount of water each year with seasonal rains and winter prep, but copper never leaves. Not an ideal method of sanitation.
5 - Should be no need to worry about the phosphates.
6 - CYA - As stated, it's high. In your area and amount of sunlight, a CYA of 50 should be plenty. If you can exchange some water to get the CYA down to at least 60 or so, that would make FC management much easier for you. So before you waste any more chemicals on adjusting other levels, I would start with the CYA first then re-balance everything.

You really do need a proper test kit. The pool store testing is so unreliable it's almost comical at times. Just be aware of that.
 
Something to think about possibly next year As far as the Saltwater system goes but at this point I have what I have If I'm going to do salt it would have to be done next year.The pool season just started up and i'm not switching all that up now I'll fly one more year with the frog and revisit the saltwater next year and put some money aside for it!

all your points are spot on I'm not arguing any of them

pool store tests are very unreliable the ph test however is accurate as I use a ph tester for my fish tank and it is dead on as far as the other tests i cant really say how close they are. I really only test my tank water for PH,GH & KH.I have a planted tank so my phosphates will be a bit elevated.

At this point until i get a real liquid test i need to use their tests as a loose guideline i know my CYA is a bit high is it too high I'm not really sure do I need to drain my pool some more not really sure on that either.thats why i'm asking
 
For your consideration .... I know an entire TF-series or Taylor kit can be a hunk of change. Have you considered getting just the FAS-DPD for accurate FC/CC testing? $32 as opposed to a full kit price. Maybe more budget friendly at the moment?

tftestkits.net

FAS/DPD Chlorine Test Kit

tftestkits.net tftestkits.net
 
JC327 said:
i know my CYA is a bit high is it too high I'm not really sure do I need to drain my pool some more not really sure on that either.thats why i'm asking
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The problem is we don't really know exactly what your CYA level is. Even with a proper test kit, over 100 would have to be diluted, which would end up having a double chance of error. If we were to "assume" the test was accurate, you could do a 50% drain and replace and would lower your CYA, theoretically by half. As you can tell, doing small dumps and filling back up takes time and gets expensive (water wise). That's why it's much better to just go for it at once. Alternatively, you can do a "no drain replace" if you'd like.
Further Reading - Draining
Further Reading - Draining - No Drain Water Exchange
 
JC327 said:
Something to think about possibly next year As far as the Saltwater system goes but at this point I have what I have If I'm going to do salt it would have to be done next year.The pool season just started up and i'm not switching all that up now I'll fly one more year with the frog and revisit the saltwater next year and put some money aside for it!

all your points are spot on I'm not arguing any of them

pool store tests are very unreliable the ph test however is accurate as I use a ph tester for my fish tank and it is dead on as far as the other tests i cant really say how close they are. I really only test my tank water for PH,GH & KH.I have a planted tank so my phosphates will be a bit elevated.

At this point until i get a real liquid test i need to use their tests as a loose guideline i know my CYA is a bit high is it too high I'm not really sure do I need to drain my pool some more not really sure on that either.thats why i'm asking
Click to expand...
Be aware that those pH meters need to be calibrated frequently, cleaned and stored properly to stay accurate. I gave up on them and switched back to drip testing as it didn’t require all the hassle.
 
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as far as water exchange goes I do have 1/3 HP pump I believe i'll have to check the pump size i actually have 3 pumps.I used x2 when draining it last night but using x2 it would drain the pool quicker than I can fill .I assume you would put the fill hose on one end of the pool and the sump pump on the opposite end I know its not ideal as its cutting down on the dilution of the CYA by removing replaced water to a degree. would you put the fill hose towards the top of the pool and pump from the bottom the water at the opposite end of the pool!the water will probably be slightly warmer in the pool than what is coming out of the hose causing the warmer water to sit up top I believe will this be an issue?From what I'm seeing and from what you guys are telling me I need at least a 50% dump to make a dent I don't really like dumping the water that lowI'm comfortable with about a fott or so anything more than that I get nervous
 
JC327 said:
as far as water exchange goes I do have 1/3 HP pump I believe i'll have to check the pump size i actually have 3 pumps.I used x2 when draining it last night but using x2 it would drain the pool quicker than I can fill .I assume you would put the fill hose on one end of the pool and the sump pump on the opposite end I know its not ideal as its cutting down on the dilution of the CYA by removing replaced water to a degree. would you put the fill hose towards the top of the pool and pump from the bottom the water at the opposite end of the pool!the water will probably be slightly warmer in the pool than what is coming out of the hose causing the warmer water to sit up top I believe will this be an issue?From what I'm seeing and from what you guys are telling me I need at least a 50% dump to make a dent I don't really like dumping the water that lowI'm comfortable with about a fott or so anything more than that I get nervous
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If you can't complete the formula, it makes the no-drain exchange hard. Is yours IG or AG? I'll let someone else chime in here as to how they would proceed.
 

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JC327 said:
Above Ground
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THen what's makes you nervous about draining it further? When you winterize, you definitely have to go down more than a few inches.

*EDIT* Okay. If yours is a hard sided pool, you can go down to 12-18" without much issue. Once you hit the 18" mark (18" LEFT in the pool), you would need to start watching for shifting of the liner. Stopping at the first sign of shifting. But that is well over half drained. If yours is a soft side (Intex brand being one), then it's safe to drain it all the way without issue. Remembering the Intex ones were made to be temporary / seasonal and be drained at the end of each season.

All you really need to worry about (aside from the 18" and lower for hard sided) is effluent water. Where will the water go? Do you have regulations in your area that restrict where it can go? Other than that, throw the pumps in, drain 'er down! Fill 'er up! Balance the water up! Swim it up!
 
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I've never really put much thought into a saltwater system the more I read about it that just may be the way to go next year I already have my supply of torpedos for the season I buy them for the summer to save a little bit and cant return them so it does not make sense to switch this year but next year I may go that route I did not realize I could use my existing filter.I thought i needed a different filter I guess I would be replacing where my frog unit sits now with a Chlorinator is there anymore to it than that?
 
dBsooner said:
what's makes you nervous about draining it further? When you winterize, you definitely have to go down more than a few inches.

*EDIT* Okay. If yours is a hard sided pool, you can go down to 12-18" without much issue. Once you hit the 18" mark (18" LEFT in the pool), you would need to start watching for shifting of the liner. Stopping at the first sign of shifting. But that is well over half drained. If yours is a soft side (Intex brand being one), then it's safe to drain it all the way without issue. Remembering the Intex ones were made to be temporary / seasonal and be drained at the end of each season.

All you really need to worry about (aside from the 18" and lower for hard sided) is effluent water. Where will the water go? Do you have regulations in your area that restrict where it can go? Other than that, throw the pumps in, drain 'er down! Fill 'er up! Balance the water up! Swim it up
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it is hard sided!I do go down a few inches when winterizing it.

as far as where will the water go I've never dumped a ton of water so I may have to move the house around some but I should be able to dump it somewhere!I guess that will be my mission tomorrow its raining up here today!

Thanks
 
JC327 said:
it is hard sided!I do go down a few inches when winterizing it.

as far as where will the water go I've never dumped a ton of water so I may have to move the house around some but I should be able to dump it somewhere!I guess that will be my mission tomorrow its raining up here today!

Thanks
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Then yep, I'd say you'd be safe to go down half way or even a little further. Otherwise, we could ask @mknauss to be able to chime in on where he'd place the pump and fill hose for a no-drain water exchange without sloving the entire formula.
 
Hard to do an efficient exchange in an above ground pool. Most hard side above ground pools you can drain down to 18” left in the pool safely.
 
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mknauss said:
Hard to do an efficient exchange in an above ground pool. Most hard side above ground pools you can drain down to 18” left in the pool safely.
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Thank you, sir! I was wondering how it would work without stratification from a deep end, along with cooler water temps lower down from the possibly cooler sides of the pool from the earth. I was thinking along the lines of a single depth IGP. Glad I asked.
 
So I did a fairly large dump last night probably about 18-20” not quite 1/2 it was getting late so I wanted to be able to replenish the water before this morning so I can run the filter when I woke up I was able to drop the cya from 119 down to 84 not ideal but a lot better than where I started a week ago at 147.

I’ve done x3 water dumps this week don’t really want to do another one but I’ll probably do one more today it took about 2 1/2 hours for the dump last night running x2 sump pumps then about 3 1/2 for the refill I’m thinking if I dump about another foot I’ll be probably close to 60

Do you feel that’s something I can live with without having to do another dump this summer with trichlor from the frog torpedoes.I think that’s what it uses.it will be dumping some in the pool throughout the summer so I’m not sure if 84 gives me enough cushion as the summer just began.I have the frog on a pretty low setting right now until I got the cya down.
 
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