Sub Poured Muratic Acid On Marble Pavers NOW WHAT ?

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The alkaline wash is fine but the damage is done. There is no way to change the stone surface back. Acid literally etches away and removes material from the surface. Millimeters worth of material. Their is no surface chemical treatment that will fix that kind of damage.

Your PB is an idiot but they probably know they screwed up and are just covering themselves by saying they always use this process. That’s BS as any competent stone mason will tell you otherwise.

I’m not sure what Texas is like for lawsuits but there other states where you could sue the PB for this kind of negligent damage

Maybe @Dirk can better advise on the legal avenues and @mcleod can help with the stone damage.
 
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If I were you I WOULD NOT DO anything on my own to affect or change the stone. This is damage caused by incompetence and if you do something to fix it you can lose your ability to recover damages legally.
 
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Wow, that’s a huge difference.

They really screwed up.

That might not be fixable without replacing the stones.

See what a certified mason suggests.

Your options might be to replace the stones or just live with it.

The builder is responsible, but getting them to take responsibility and do the right thing seems like it’s not going to happen without a big fight.

Real professionals admit their mistakes and fix them.

Scumbag contractors avoid accepting responsibility for their mistakes and do everything they can to get out of their responsibility.

I’m sure that the deck was very expensive.

You obviously wanted a first class deck, but you got a major disaster due to obvious incompetence.

I would not accept the workmanship as it is obviously defective.
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
The alkaline wash is fine but the damage is done. There is no way to change the stone surface back. Acid literally etches away and removes material from the surface. Millimeters worth of material. Their is no surface chemical treatment that will fix that kind of damage.

Your PB is an idiot but they probably know they screwed up and are just covering themselves by saying they always use this process. That’s BS as any competent stone mason will tell you otherwise.

I’m not sure what Texas is like for lawsuits but there other states where you could sue the PB for this kind of negligent damage

Maybe @Dirk can better advise on the legal avenues and @mcleod can help with the stone damage.
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Thank you as always for your insight! I am a novice and even I know better. I understand that there is no coming back from this damage I am just looking for a way to not cause further issues and make it usable. Is the alkaline wash a useless step or is there any merit? The stone place said they only thing shy of replacement for now was to do the wash and seal after the washed and drys. I don't see that for now we can rip out all the pavers over that sub deck and start over we can't afford that and the PB seems to think this is all fine. They are do to plaster wednesday and I could hold back that payment and then we are on to a legal battle.
 
parkinsmith said:
Is the alkaline wash a useless step or is there any merit?
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Try the wash on a spot to see what happens.

If the recommendation is coming from a qualified source, then it might be correct.

I doubt that you're going to get back to the same finish you started with.

See what a certified mason suggests.

Maybe they can sand or polish using a fine grit.

Sealer might make a more uniform color, but it can also make the stones really slippery, especially when wet.

Try the sealer on a test spot to be sure.
 
I know you say you can't replace the deck, but is it all over or only a few tiles damaged. Is replacing the acid affected areas an option. A builder I once worked with was always replacing stained sandstone tiles.

Keep asking as James suggests, I've seen some pretty amazing repairs done on what we had all written off.
 
JamesW said:
Wow, that’s a huge difference.

They really screwed up.

That might not be fixable without replacing the stones.

See what a certified mason suggests.

Your options might be to replace the stones or just live with it.

The builder is responsible, but getting them to take responsibility and do the right thing seems like it’s not going to happen without a big fight.

Real professionals admit their mistakes and fix them.

Scumbag contractors avoid accepting responsibility for their mistakes and do everything they can to get out of their responsibility.

I’m sure that the deck was very expensive.

You obviously wanted a first class deck, but you got a major disaster due to obvious incompetence.

I would not accept the workmanship as it is obviously defective.
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We are exhausted from the whole build with the PB , a huge legal battle could be costly really not sure we want to go down that road. Yes, this was very expensive and just beautiful , we were finally on the home stretch and this happened. I don't see any other option than to consult with a few expert masons and see if there is anything at all we can try to minimize the look and the damage and then live with it. Very sad to have this happen, it really puts a damper on what was to be such an exciting time. The subs were lazy and STUPID and the PB the same . Same PB tried telling me to throw in my robot on the fresh stonescapes plaster. Seriously I am so very glad I found this group and have been learning what to do and not to do. It has been a blessing but I could never have imagined anyone would have poured acid onto a marble deck . I was not prepared for that.
 
Jaffles said:
I know you say you can't replace the deck, but is it all over or only a few tiles damaged. Is replacing the acid affected areas an option. A builder I once worked with was always replacing stained sandstone tiles.

Keep asking as James suggests, I've seen some pretty amazing repairs done on what we had all written off.
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That could be an option on the really bad ones . I am going to start smiling and dialing Monday to see what I can find out. I am also going down to the stone place , they are excellent and might be able to point me in the right direction .
 

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parkinsmith said:
That could be an option on the really bad ones . I am going to start smiling and dialing Monday to see what I can find out. I am also going down to the stone place , they are excellent and might be able to point me in the right direction .
Click to expand...

If they supply a lot of stone and tile in your area then they will know a lot of the masons in your area. Ask them.
 
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JamesW said:
Try the wash on a spot to see what happens.

If the recommendation is coming from a qualified source, then it might be correct.

I doubt that you're going to get back to the same finish you started with.

See what a certified mason suggests.

Maybe they can sand or polish using a fine grit.

Sealer might make a more uniform color, but it can also make the stones really slippery, especially when wet.

Try the sealer on a test spot to be sure.
Click to expand...
That could be an option on the really bad ones . I am going to start smiling and dialing Monday to see what I can find out. I am also going down to the stone place , they are excellent and might be able to point me in the right direction .
JamesW said:
Try the wash on a spot to see what happens.

If the recommendation is coming from a qualified source, then it might be correct.

I doubt that you're going to get back to the same finish you started with.

See what a certified mason suggests.

Maybe they can sand or polish using a fine grit.

Sealer might make a more uniform color, but it can also make the stones really slippery, especially when wet.

Try the sealer on a test spot to be sure.
Click to expand...
Thank you . The only reason I was going to seal it was to make it easy to clean up stains as it is white, I did test it on extra stones but that was before the acid issue so I have no idea how a sealer would react on the stones now . The wash suggestion came from the stone supplier. They are a large , well known supplier ( Faber CNK) . I spoke with the marble guy and will be going there on Monday.
 
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parkinsmith said:
We are exhausted from the whole build with the PB , a huge legal battle could be costly really not sure we want to go down that road. Yes, this was very expensive and just beautiful , we were finally on the home stretch and this happened. I don't see any other option than to consult with a few expert masons and see if there is anything at all we can try to minimize the look and the damage and then live with it. Very sad to have this happen, it really puts a damper on what was to be such an exciting time. The subs were lazy and STUPID and the PB the same . Same PB tried telling me to throw in my robot on the fresh stonescapes plaster. Seriously I am so very glad I found this group and have been learning what to do and not to do. It has been a blessing but I could never have imagined anyone would have poured acid onto a marble deck . I was not prepared for that.
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There’s no way in heck I’d have the same attitude. The PB needs to REPLACE the deck - simple as that. I’m sorry it’s expensive and I’m sorry it won’t be easy, but they ruined it. This is not a simple mistake - you should be consulting an attorney.
 
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Below is a video where a contractor had to replace a driveway because it had problems.

Most likely, the concrete supplier was at fault and the contractor still took responsibility because they care about their reputation.

Maybe the contractor can recover from the supplier for their cost, but that’s between the contractor and the supplier.

The customer is taken care of.

The contractor could have told the customer that the supplier was at fault and told the customer to file a claim with the supplier, but the contractor stepped up and made it right.

They are a professional because they did the right thing and replaced it.

It’s just the right thing to do.

No whining, crying, finger pointing, avoiding blame, excuses, lies etc.

Good contractors have the integrity to fix their mistakes.


In this video we show you how to demo, setup, and pour a concrete driveway!

We had just poured this concrete driveway a couple months ago, as well as the neighbor’s driveway.

This one had cracked up everywhere and the neighbor’s was fine.

So here we are breaking it out and putting a new one in!
Click to expand...
 
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Yes its a funny logic, by owning it you may not get glowing remarks from owners after the repair, but you will eliminate the years of scathing reviews. Its human nature to recall how thay felt duped and usually don't mind telling their story given the opportunity to anyone who will listen. Even ol mate in the vid does it to the concrete company. I have a decent list of companies I won't deal with again from airlines to insurance companies, to white goods.

But by owning it I found one makes peace with themselves, learn what not to do again, and run half a chance of picking up customers.

Ol mate there is turning a mistake that looks like its not his fault, into potentially gaining credit for being honest and having some pride. I imagine he also has no legal leg to stand on as its obvious something is wrong with a 6 month old driveway.

Sadly from what I have seen personally and read on here, PBs are not very good at it.

I'm with Reggie, I think these contractors under the leadership of the PB buggered the tiles, and between the two of them should be replacing them.

Perhaps get some written responses from stone masions, tile suppliers etc on their views of the state of the tiles. Float them past the PB and mention talking to a solicitor. I imagine the cheapest way out for the PB after he has though about it is to do the wright thing and own it.
 
parkinsmith said:
So my PB's coping / pavers sub finally came back to finish my 1300 sq ft very white with gray sandblasted marble pavers deck .
He went MIA for two weeks before showing back up to finish and seal the white and gray deck . The deck had sat for two weeks unsealed and had ground in orange sandy loam on it. I told him he had to clean the deck prior to sealing . I saw them out there with the hose and a broom. I told them I had some Palmolive if they needed it to scrub out some of the bad stains. Next thing I know I walk out there an hour later and they are pouring Muriatic Acid RIGHT OUT OF THE JUG onto a wet deck. I saw smoke coming off the deck where they were doing this. . By that time it was too late. They had used 4 gallons of muriatic acid all over the deck, they would spray the hose then put the acid . I said WTH are you doing? They said " you wanted us to get out the stains, don't worry we are wetting the deck first"

My expensive , beautiful mostly white marble is now all splotchy , uneven color with a heck of a lot more gray and now chalky in places and in places it looks oily/shiny but it is dry . They still need to add sand in between the pavers and seal. This is an overlay of pavers on top of concrete sub deck.

Here is the question: do I allow them to come back and seal over this now acid washed splotchy deck , should I let them add the sand ?
OR do I not seal now and wait and try to find a specialist to help me . Plaster is scheduled for Wednesday. I am assuming there is no fix to counteract the effects of the acid ? I just don't want to make anything worse and wonder if sealing the splotchy deck or having them try to add the sand will make it worse. I am really done with these subs , lazy and very poor judgement. PB not much better.

Looking for ideas and direction.
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Hi
it's @mcleod. I will include @Dirk and @JoyfulNoise in this. Please take a deep breath, pour a favorite libation, and let's think about this. As I understand this post...you have white marble (name/region?) with grey veining, and it has been sandblasted. Some questions.
Who did the sandblasting? Was it local or by the quarry?
The texture of the ordered stone differs from the acid-etched stone in what way? Describe your tactile and visual senses of the two surfaces.
The shading difference you described is or is not from dirt? Is the shading different in those areas touched by the acid as opposed to the sandblasted?
I know this is a big deal and I want you to know that there may be alternatives that will save the installation. No need to send pics at this moment.

Mc
 
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Jaffles said:
Yes its a funny logic, by owning it you may not get glowing remarks from owners after the repair, but you will eliminate the years of scathing reviews.
Click to expand...
In many cases, the customer will give even better reviews for a contractor who steps up and does the right thing.

Everyone knows that things can go wrong.

What matters is why did they go wrong and what did the contractor do about it?

If it’s an honest mistake, then the customer will usually understand as long as the contractor makes it right.

If it’s due to gross incompetence or neglect, then the customer is unlikely to have anything good to say even if the contractor fixes the mistake right away, but they are probably not going to post a bunch of scathing reviews.

However, if it’s incompetence, neglect or criminal behavior and the contractor avoids taking responsibility, that’s when the customer really gets offended and does everything possible to badmouth the contractor.

In the driveway example, it appears that the contractor was probably not at fault or they should at least get the benefit of the doubt.

So, the customer would probably give the contractor good reviews and referrals.
 
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mcleod said:
Hi
it's @mcleod. I will include @Dirk and @JoyfulNoise in this. Please take a deep breath, pour a favorite libation, and let's think about this. As I understand this post...you have white marble (name/region?) with grey veining, and it has been sandblasted. Some questions.
Who did the sandblasting? Was it local or by the quarry?
The texture of the ordered stone differs from the acid-etched stone in what way? Describe your tactile and visual senses of the two surfaces.
The shading difference you described is or is not from dirt? Is the shading different in those areas touched by the acid as opposed to the sandblasted?
I know this is a big deal and I want you to know that there may be alternatives that will save the installation. No need to send pics at this moment.

Mc
Click to expand...
Thank you so very much for reaching out!
Step 1 complete, deep breath taken.
Step 2 complete, single malt is poured.!
Here we go ……
The name of the marble is Gray Pearl, I think it might be from Turkey, it was purchased at Farber CNK, a very good stone supplier in Dallas, TX (they have other locations as well) . I should also mention my coping is this same stone as well. It came sand blasted, I am not sure if they did the sand blast or if it arrives that way from overseas , ( I get the impression it does ). I will be going there on Monday and can gather more info. Here is a link to the marble Grey Pearl Sand Blasted Marble Pavers – Faber CNK Stone

The texture of the original stone is smooth but with a slight rough texture to it

After the acid wash in some places the texture is chalky, in some places it does not have the slight roughness and in other places there are a few patches that I would call super smooth. these smaller areas look wet , oily or slick but to the touch are dry and super smooth. These are patches and shine in the sun but they do not cover an entire paver area they appear around the deck in small areas. So, there are a few different textures happening in various areas of the deck,

Visually the original stones are super white (I have a lot leftover to compare to ), there are little silver flecks that catch light , the gray veins are very subtle when the stone is dry it almost like they are hidden under the surface. Just beautiful. I picked this because of the mostly all white look when dry as that is what I was going for. It does not have a heavy marbleized or gray look unless you wet the deck. Once dry it goes back to the white look.

The acid washed deck looks very different now. It is very inconsistent looking but not in a good way, natural stone is inconsistent but in a natural beauty way, this is now splotchy and erratic looking. Like a Jackson Pollack painting without the artistic flair.
In some areas there are large sections that are very gray (was white before) with white blobs mixed in not like veins but like big areas of white stain on the darker gray. Sort of looks like those stain images shrinks use. This could be where they poured the acid right out of the jug on to the paver and it was starting to run across the paver. That is the impression it gives me when I look at. So, I see white splotches on gray areas, but the areas were not gray before. It is grayer than before. I do see in some areas more of the marble look than before. ( a few of the pavers look like normal marble , more heavily marbled than before ( those places are not bad ) In some places it looks like when you wet the original stone but it is dry . There also seems to be a haze or a dulling effect., chalky. The original stones were not shiny, but they were crisp and clean now things kind of look dull. There are also some smaller white splotches that look like a powder on some of the coping

The shading looks very different in the areas where I am assuming were touched by the acid, is some places you look at it and your mind says this is where they poured out the acid from the jug and in other places my mind says oh this is where they spread the acid around or used the hose sort of like bad streaks shaded in .

I hope my impressions answer your questions thoroughly. I am happy to answer any and all questions you might have.

Grateful to you all for trying to help me figure out possible pathways. It is really a heartbreaker not to mention frustrating.

Time now for a few more fingers of that scotch😊

Jen
 
I am so sorry y'all went through this. If my PB messed up like this I would have:

  • Talked with contractor to see if they will take responsibility
  • Talked with PB and made it clear it is unacceptable and they must fix it
  • Let them know the next step was I would sue and be leaving my experience and reviews everywhere.
  • Have a lawyer write a letter.
  • Let the Texas contractor licensing know and file an issue against their license
  • Check for bond and insurance claim paths
  • File a suit
  • The harder they fight, go after them harder
Once the PB receives a letter I bet they cave though.

A lack of knowledge about a material does not give them a excuse to ruin it.

Anyways it stinks this happened. Especially right at the end. It can be hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel and be so close to being done and then muster up the energy to start a potentially lengthy fight.
 
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