Hayward Sense & Dispense install
- Thread starter joboo7777
- Start date
I like the sense and dispense but I wish I could dial in an exact chlorine ppm. Specific orp #s doesn't provide the same chlorine levels. Still better than manual dosing. Maybe a stenner pump set on a timer is better but probably not.
ORP was not designed to match a specific chlorine reading and instead is used to measure the potential of chlorine to oxidize water. So in theory you could have free chlorine levels of two difference pools be the same PPM level but one pool may have a higher ORP measurement because of other factors like PH & Cyanuric Acid which may impact chlorines ability to oxidize the water. In my experience using the S&D system I have been able to effectively keep my pool at acceptable free chlorine levels even though the PPM measurements vary from time to time.
@joboo7777 -- again, great post! Question regarding the electrical side of this setup for the ACID and the CHLOR tanks. Am I correct in assuming that the two GFCI outlets you installed are each connected to two separate high-voltage relays in the Omnilogic box? Omni's install manuals aren't super clear for the HL-CHEM, AQL-CHEM4-ACID or AQL-CHEM4-CHLOR in this regard.Update:
All equipment was received and installed this past week! Woohoo!
Installation took around 4 hours. Partly because I wanted the feeders to be plugged directly in to GFCI outlets in a weather proof box so the tech had to run flex conduit from the Omni 15ft to the feeders. After the hardware was installed there was some software configuration within the Omnilogic required to activate the Sense and Dispense system. Both ORP and PH probes worked out of box which is always a nice thing. After calibrating using the pinpoint 7.0 solution, I did find it was reading .1 higher than actual. This was a simple fix as all that is needed is an adjustment in the Omni software.It actually can been done right from the mobile app which was nice. I also confirmed PH with my taylor kit as well as with my local Leslie Pool store who uses the Lamotte Digital tester. I know, I know, Leslie is the Devil, but I gotta say my local Leslie is pretty good. They don't push ANY product and they know how to execute the Lamotte tests consistently. Basically I go to them to take advantage of a $1,000 test device,
For the first day I put the system in test only mode which basically allows me to view PH and ORP readings without dispensing. This allowed me to build up some confidence in the accuracy of the readings. Then I enabled PH and set it to 7.7. I immediately saw the impact PH had on ORP. As my ph decreased, my ORP readings increased. The below readings confirm it.
Initial readings
ORP 530mV
PH 7.9
FC 2.8
60 minutes later after adding Muriatic acid to get Ph to 7.7(recalibrated the probe after dosing. so even though It was set to 7.7 it was actually 7.6)
ORP 750mV
PH 7.6
FC 2.8
The feeders are now both filled with the appropriate chemicals. 10% HDX Liquid Chlorine(12 gallons) in one and 3 parts water(11 gallons)/1 part HDX Muriatic acid(3 1/2 gallons) in the other. So far it has only dipped below 7.7 twice and both times the stenner pumps would turn on for about 30 seconds then turn off for what seemed like 5 mins, then repeated until reaching 7.7.
Now with PH stable, I have activated ORP and set to 700mV. It has not dipped below 700 yet so I'm eagerly awaiting., I will be testing FC every day using my taylor kit to see how FC levels impact my ORP readings. I also have an Ozonator which can also impact ORP readings. I think one of the biggest questions has always been how do you know if your ozonator is working? It looks like ORP can possible give you some insights in to that. I may even turn the Ozonator off at some point to see if and how much my Orp level decreases.
Since the weather is cold I'm not too worried about my FC level. In fact this is probably the best time to introduce a system like this since there is some room for error. Eventually I'd like to match up the right ORP level to the level of FC recommended by TFP. I Suspect I'll need to raise ORP to >750mV to accomplish this.
I also made one additional adjustment to disable chemical dispensing while the SPA is running. This was also an easy configuration change within the mobile app.
So far I'm pleased with the results. It's still early so I plan to provide updates regularly on the performance of this system. Although I don't expect I will be manually adding chemicals daily like I have been in the past, I do expect more work monitoring and maintaining the system ie.. periodic Probe cleaning, Feeder refilling, Stenner Pump Maintenance are all required to keep this working. This is NOT a set and forget system!
Pic of HL-CHEM unit installed. The device attaches directly to the side of the Omnilogic case. No anchors in brick required.
View attachment 173083
Chemical Feeders Plugged in to electrical box. The blue tubing that feeds the chemicals then connects right before the water returns to pool
View attachment 173084
View of the PH and ORP from the home screen of my Hayward Mobile app
View attachment 173085
PH Calibration screen in the Mobile app. You can see I changed the offset by -1 to correct the reading.
View attachment 173086
Pic of the dispensing units set to Off when in SPA mode.
View attachment 173087
Thanks!
You are correct. My setup is Alittle different than the manual describes. The system comes with wiring pigtails that wire directly to the relay and allow for the dispenser pump to plug in to. Instead I decided to install outdoor GFCI outlets in weather proof boxes with plastic conduit protecting the wires to the OmniLogic panel. It might be overkill but I felt it was safer and protected the connections better.
Here are my own somewhat disorganized notes from the orp and FC readings (not sure if this helps but just in case):
ORP to FC
770 9
750 8
*Ozone system added*
665 4.4 4/20
645 2.8 (orp night, FC same morning) 4/21
650 2.0 4/22
640 1.3 4/23
615 0.9 4/24 (ozone stopped at 6p instead of 11p)
595 .4 4/25
580 .2 4/26
620 (set at 600} 3.2 4/27
630 2.2 4/28.
Turned off chlorinator
Ran pump for 20 hours (aop for 14 hoursb)
625 1.6 4/29
615 1.0 4/30
Xxxxxc 5/1
585 .3 5/2
570 .1 5/3
545 0? 5/4 used spa at night
525 5/5
485 5/6
455 5/7
435 5/8
420 5/9
415 5/10
Ran chlorine stenner 5 minutes
Super chlorinate 2 hours (starting 530p)
0 chlorine (algae) 5/11
430 orp 5/11
Super chlorinate 2 hours done 11am
435 orp
0 fc
Super chlorinate 2 hours done 230p
.3 fc
Orp 435
Set orp at 440 5/11
5/12 435 orp 0.3 fc
5/13 445 orp 0.6 fc
5/14 445 orp 0.2 fc
Changed orp to set at 460
5/15 orp 455 FC 1.0 swam in pool after testing
5/16 orp 455 fc 0.1
5/17 455 orp 0.2 fc
Algae at night
Change orp setting to 470
5/18 455 orp fc 02
Algae afternoon
5/19 460 orp 0.2 fc
Afternoon algae / slam .75 gallons chlorine
5/20. 570 orp
5/21 600 orp
5/22 605 2.4 fc
5/23 1.4 fc 595 orp
5/23 1.0 fc 595 1.0
5/24 0.4 fc 580 orp changed, orp setting to 600
5/25 0.4 fc 565 orp algae
5/26 slight algae. Dumped chlorine
Changed orp to 650
Dumped more chlorine
5/28 turned off ozone
6/5 610 orp 0.6 fc
Added .5 gallon chlorine
620 orp 2.8 fc
ORP to FC
770 9
750 8
*Ozone system added*
665 4.4 4/20
645 2.8 (orp night, FC same morning) 4/21
650 2.0 4/22
640 1.3 4/23
615 0.9 4/24 (ozone stopped at 6p instead of 11p)
595 .4 4/25
580 .2 4/26
620 (set at 600} 3.2 4/27
630 2.2 4/28.
Turned off chlorinator
Ran pump for 20 hours (aop for 14 hoursb)
625 1.6 4/29
615 1.0 4/30
Xxxxxc 5/1
585 .3 5/2
570 .1 5/3
545 0? 5/4 used spa at night
525 5/5
485 5/6
455 5/7
435 5/8
420 5/9
415 5/10
Ran chlorine stenner 5 minutes
Super chlorinate 2 hours (starting 530p)
0 chlorine (algae) 5/11
430 orp 5/11
Super chlorinate 2 hours done 11am
435 orp
0 fc
Super chlorinate 2 hours done 230p
.3 fc
Orp 435
Set orp at 440 5/11
5/12 435 orp 0.3 fc
5/13 445 orp 0.6 fc
5/14 445 orp 0.2 fc
Changed orp to set at 460
5/15 orp 455 FC 1.0 swam in pool after testing
5/16 orp 455 fc 0.1
5/17 455 orp 0.2 fc
Algae at night
Change orp setting to 470
5/18 455 orp fc 02
Algae afternoon
5/19 460 orp 0.2 fc
Afternoon algae / slam .75 gallons chlorine
5/20. 570 orp
5/21 600 orp
5/22 605 2.4 fc
5/23 1.4 fc 595 orp
5/23 1.0 fc 595 1.0
5/24 0.4 fc 580 orp changed, orp setting to 600
5/25 0.4 fc 565 orp algae
5/26 slight algae. Dumped chlorine
Changed orp to 650
Dumped more chlorine
5/28 turned off ozone
6/5 610 orp 0.6 fc
Added .5 gallon chlorine
620 orp 2.8 fc
clintwb
Member
- Feb 10, 2021
- 21
- Pool Size
- 2400
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-3)
This is an excellent write up.
I am right by you in Wylie Tx and about to add the Sense & Dispense system to my little 2500 gal pool I built last year. I have Omni Hub and an Aquarite SWG and it’s been going well so far. I just travel a lot for a a few days to a week or so at a time and being able to control the PH remotely would be a huge benefit to me as that has been all manual adding acid.
Did you look into C02 for Ph control at all? I have been reading a lot about it. For a small pool like mine it looks like I could likely easily go a year between refilling a C02 tank and not have to use acid. Quite interesting and wondering if you researched that vs the acid tank/pump with your system.
I am right by you in Wylie Tx and about to add the Sense & Dispense system to my little 2500 gal pool I built last year. I have Omni Hub and an Aquarite SWG and it’s been going well so far. I just travel a lot for a a few days to a week or so at a time and being able to control the PH remotely would be a huge benefit to me as that has been all manual adding acid.
Did you look into C02 for Ph control at all? I have been reading a lot about it. For a small pool like mine it looks like I could likely easily go a year between refilling a C02 tank and not have to use acid. Quite interesting and wondering if you researched that vs the acid tank/pump with your system.
Hi there. I did look in to CO2 but because it was more inconvenient and cumbersome exchanging tanks and the amount of CO2 needed I decided not to. The biggest drawback to acid is the risk of injury which is minimized by using the sense and dispense system since it helps to reduce the amount of exposure and direct contact to the chemical.
I installed the HL-CHEM today…pretty easy based on this post. Thank you!Update:
All equipment was received and installed this past week! Woohoo!
Installation took around 4 hours. Partly because I wanted the feeders to be plugged directly in to GFCI outlets in a weather proof box so the tech had to run flex conduit from the Omni 15ft to the feeders. After the hardware was installed there was some software configuration within the Omnilogic required to activate the Sense and Dispense system. Both ORP and PH probes worked out of box which is always a nice thing. After calibrating using the pinpoint 7.0 solution, I did find it was reading .1 higher than actual. This was a simple fix as all that is needed is an adjustment in the Omni software.It actually can been done right from the mobile app which was nice. I also confirmed PH with my taylor kit as well as with my local Leslie Pool store who uses the Lamotte Digital tester. I know, I know, Leslie is the Devil, but I gotta say my local Leslie is pretty good. They don't push ANY product and they know how to execute the Lamotte tests consistently. Basically I go to them to take advantage of a $1,000 test device,
For the first day I put the system in test only mode which basically allows me to view PH and ORP readings without dispensing. This allowed me to build up some confidence in the accuracy of the readings. Then I enabled PH and set it to 7.7. I immediately saw the impact PH had on ORP. As my ph decreased, my ORP readings increased. The below readings confirm it.
Initial readings
ORP 530mV
PH 7.9
FC 2.8
60 minutes later after adding Muriatic acid to get Ph to 7.7(recalibrated the probe after dosing. so even though It was set to 7.7 it was actually 7.6)
ORP 750mV
PH 7.6
FC 2.8
The feeders are now both filled with the appropriate chemicals. 10% HDX Liquid Chlorine(12 gallons) in one and 3 parts water(11 gallons)/1 part HDX Muriatic acid(3 1/2 gallons) in the other. So far it has only dipped below 7.7 twice and both times the stenner pumps would turn on for about 30 seconds then turn off for what seemed like 5 mins, then repeated until reaching 7.7.
Now with PH stable, I have activated ORP and set to 700mV. It has not dipped below 700 yet so I'm eagerly awaiting., I will be testing FC every day using my taylor kit to see how FC levels impact my ORP readings. I also have an Ozonator which can also impact ORP readings. I think one of the biggest questions has always been how do you know if your ozonator is working? It looks like ORP can possible give you some insights in to that. I may even turn the Ozonator off at some point to see if and how much my Orp level decreases.
Since the weather is cold I'm not too worried about my FC level. In fact this is probably the best time to introduce a system like this since there is some room for error. Eventually I'd like to match up the right ORP level to the level of FC recommended by TFP. I Suspect I'll need to raise ORP to >750mV to accomplish this.
I also made one additional adjustment to disable chemical dispensing while the SPA is running. This was also an easy configuration change within the mobile app.
So far I'm pleased with the results. It's still early so I plan to provide updates regularly on the performance of this system. Although I don't expect I will be manually adding chemicals daily like I have been in the past, I do expect more work monitoring and maintaining the system ie.. periodic Probe cleaning, Feeder refilling, Stenner Pump Maintenance are all required to keep this working. This is NOT a set and forget system!
Pic of HL-CHEM unit installed. The device attaches directly to the side of the Omnilogic case. No anchors in brick required.
View attachment 173083
Chemical Feeders Plugged in to electrical box. The blue tubing that feeds the chemicals then connects right before the water returns to pool
View attachment 173084
View of the PH and ORP from the home screen of my Hayward Mobile app
View attachment 173085
PH Calibration screen in the Mobile app. You can see I changed the offset by -1 to correct the reading.
View attachment 173086
Pic of the dispensing units set to Off when in SPA mode.
View attachment 173087
Regarding the PH probe…does yours have what looks like a little glass bubble surrounding the tip of the metal probe? My ORP sensor doesn’t have this.
Yes, the PH and ORP probes look different. Don’t forget to clean them every 30-60 days. That’s very important for maintaining consistency with readings and longevity.
clintwb
Member
- Feb 10, 2021
- 21
- Pool Size
- 2400
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-3)
Thanks. I did more research on it and with my tiny pool (its basically a large plunge pool @ 2,500 gal) C02 looked nice but I read a lot of issues with SWG and C02 so I just went with the acid feed. I got it all installed last week (*I am a total DIY pool so its been fun figuring all this out) and so far everything is super smooth. 1 week isnt anything in the scheme of things but It has kept me within a few points of 7.5ph and ORP has been stable once I got the acid dispenser hooked in and it keeps me right around 3-4PPM chlorine so far even with about an hour of heavy use by my kids each afternoon and the 100º+ temps. I am hoping this all works great long term but optimistic with your post and quite a few other North Texas pool owners on here using it.
clintwb
Member
- Feb 10, 2021
- 21
- Pool Size
- 2400
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-3)
I had a flow switch wired into the SWG and the OmniLogic wouldn't recognize it for the Sense and Dispense system. Rather than hooking another one up, I honestly just spliced the wire with another phone jack and plugged one jack into the SWG and one into the Omni --- amazingly that worked just fine and both systems read from the same sensor.... a little weird but it worked great
That’s great to hear! I know others have had challenges using similar systems with a SWG. What is your Cyanuric Acid level at? This seems to be the biggest issue issuing SWGs.
JoggerFogger
New member
joboo7777,
Just wanted to post up and thank you for sharing your experiences. I want this too, and really appreciate real world feedback.
-Kevin
Just wanted to post up and thank you for sharing your experiences. I want this too, and really appreciate real world feedback.
-Kevin
clintwb
Member
- Feb 10, 2021
- 21
- Pool Size
- 2400
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-3)
HI @joboo7777
Here are my most recent tests:
If it helps, I have a 2,400 Gal pool (yes, its small)
My salt is a little low after things settled down and a few backwashes so thats on my agenda this weekend.
Heres a few photos - Build, just after filled. and first swim. This was last July.
Here are my most recent tests:
If it helps, I have a 2,400 Gal pool (yes, its small)
| FC: | 8 |
| TC: | 8.5 |
| PH: | 7.5 |
| TA: | 80 |
| CH | 300 |
| CYA | 42 |
| Iron | 0 |
| Copper | 0.1 ppm |
| Phosphates | 880 ppb |
| Salt | 2650 |
My salt is a little low after things settled down and a few backwashes so thats on my agenda this weekend.
Heres a few photos - Build, just after filled. and first swim. This was last July.
clintwb
Member
- Feb 10, 2021
- 21
- Pool Size
- 2400
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-3)
I FINALLY updated my old build thread from last year - it has more photos and specs of the pool
www.troublefreepool.com
Texas Dip Pool Build - DIY
Ive been reading and learning here for over a year and I'm excited to start this build thread now that we are getting close to making this thing happen! Nothing here is set in stone yet, its just where my plans are at. I would love to be ready to dig mid next month but I also have no time table...
www.troublefreepool.com
Charlie Bezzina
Well-known member
- Jul 10, 2021
- 176
- Pool Size
- 38000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-9)
Clint, wiring two devices to one flow switch as you have done can damage either or both electronic devices. You were lucky.
@joboo7777 Since you are up in north Texas and experiencing the same general weather as me in Houston, I wanted to bounce my chemical usage against yours. My pool was filled for the first time in January and has a pebbletec finish. I have not yet automated the chlorine side of things, but I am currently going through about 32oz of 10.5% bleach per day...some days a little less if cloudy and cooler. On the acid side the pool seems to be very thirsty -- I have heard this can be the case in the 1st year of a pebbletec finish. The setpoint for my pH is currently 7.5, and I am going through about 2 gallons of 31.45% muriatic acid a week. How does this line up with you?
On the acid side, I am following the instructions in the Hayward Acid feed manual and diluting the acid with a ratio of 3 gallons of water to 1 gallon of acid. I am curious as to whether or not you do the same, or if you just go with the acid straight up. The dilution process is a bit of a pain.
I really want to automate the chlorine side of things, but I am concerned about the breakdown of chlorine in the Texas heat. My equipment sits on the west side of my house (actually between 2 houses) and gets direct sun for 3-4 hours per day and a decent amount of radiant heat from the brick on the house. I am actually contemplating building a small shed with a shiny sheet metal roof over the two tanks. I would also likely only fill the chlorine tank with 1x 2.5gal jerry can of bleach at a time as to avoid waste. What is your experience and how are you managing this?
For me its not a chlorine feeder vs SWG argument but more of is an ORP measurement consistent enough to determine how much chlorine to dispense OR generate using an SWG? For me, at least, ORP has been a very stable measurement and keeps my chlorine within 1ppm(sometime alittle more). For others it has not been. In many cases its due to a CYA that is higher than 40. I keep my CYA around 20-30 and have not had any issues maintaining accurate ORP measurements.
Glad this was helpful. If you do decide to get the system feel free to ping me any time if you have questions.
I'm not a pool SME like the moderators on these forums, but the research I have done on this sight indicates PH typically higher doing the first 12-18 months with plaster finishes. I didn't want to fight it too much so I keep my PH around 7.8 in Summer months and 7.9/8.0 During Winter months. I dilute the acid using the recommended 1:3 acid to water ration. I usually have to add Acid to the feeder every 4-6 months depending on time of year. If you look at my pool logs you can see when I've have to add and at what frequency.
Your Chlorine consumption does seem high. What is your CYA at? At the peak of summer last year I was averaging over 3 gallons a week at a CYA around 25-30. I would just make sure your CYA is over 25. You could probably even bring it to 40 without issue. But not much more than that.
Last edited:
@Davispeden below are my chlorine readings from last summer. I need to do the same for this summer which i'll try to do over the next few days. This is what you can expect assuming your CYA is 20-30ppm. My Chlorine usage peaked in July then started to decrease in August. Which makes sense since the Sun is most direct in June/July time frame(ie Summer Solstice)
June 3rd - June 23 - 8 gallons @ 2.8 gallons per week
June 24 - July 15 - 13 gallons & 8oz of Trichlor @ 4.1 gallons per week
July 15 - Aug 3rd - 9 gallons & 16oz of Trichlor @ 3.15 gallons per week
August 4th - Aug 14th - 3 gallons @ 2.5 gallons per week
August 15th - Aug 31st - 6 gallons @ 2.5 gallons per week
June 3rd - June 23 - 8 gallons @ 2.8 gallons per week
June 24 - July 15 - 13 gallons & 8oz of Trichlor @ 4.1 gallons per week
July 15 - Aug 3rd - 9 gallons & 16oz of Trichlor @ 3.15 gallons per week
August 4th - Aug 14th - 3 gallons @ 2.5 gallons per week
August 15th - Aug 31st - 6 gallons @ 2.5 gallons per week