My fill water baseline...what should i be concerned about?

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

This is my baseline fill water chemistry.
High TA, high pH, high phosphates.

How is that going to affect my overall strategy?

setsailsoon · May 28, 2022

dog,

Best strategy is to get a TFP recommended test kit.Test Kits Compared. We don't sell them but there are many places you can get them. The only thing we rely on pool store tests for is metals. Phosphates don't matter but pool stores provide this to sell you on expensive phosphate remover chemicals. If you stay within TFP recommendations phosphates don't matter. Copper indicates you have been using algaecide. This is not recommended click here to learn why.

We can't really recommend a maintenance strategy based on pool store results since they are often inaccurate and reacting to them can create problems. Once you get the recommended test kit of your choice use TFP guidelines. ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. It's really pretty simple... run a complete set of tests initially. Focus on FC, CC, pH initially and frequently until you get to know your specific pool and adjust to stay in proper ranges. Use Pool Math app to figure out how much chemical to add. Once you get this down you can back off to a couple times per week or even less for salt pools. Other tests should be run every week at least until you get to see the trends, then as you bring these into recommended ranges you can back off. If you have any questions after reading through this material please don't hesitate to ask. TFP methods are used by over 300,000 people very successfully and also very cost effectively since we use generic chemicals available at big box stores instead of the exact same ingredients at expensive pool stores. We all needed a little help getting started and that's a big part of what TFP volunteers do.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

Wobblerlorri · May 28, 2022

Is this the water right out of your tap? Just like you'd go get a glass of water? City water?

If it is, testing it at the pool store proves how

pool store testing is. FC in city water should be closer to 0.6, pH should be around 7.5 and (the big tell) there should be NO cyanuric acid. None, zip, de nada. CYA is not added by any city water facility in this country, or any other I'm aware of. A CYA of 5 is too high to be a genuine result, and means it's either a technical error (machine not calibrated) or user error (the person doing the test didn't do it right).

If it's well water, there should be no FC or CC unless you chlorinate your well, and definitely NO CYA.

Get yourself a TF-100 or a Taylor K2006C (links on my sig) and take over your own testing. While you wait for it to get here, don't do anything except add 3 to 5 ppm liquid chlorine every day, and add about 20 ppm CYA, using the sock method. When you get your kit, practice testing on the tap water til you're confident, then test your pool water. Post the results here in this format

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Then we can advise you on how to balance and care for your pool. We only offer advice based on testing with a preferred kit. I suggest you read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry, Recommended Levels, andPoolMath, a nifty app for calculating the math of owning a pool. Use PoolMath to calculate how much CYA to add, and how much liquid chlorine provides 3 to 5 ppm FC.

Looking forward to your results!

Newdude · May 28, 2022

False start. Offense. 5 yard penalty. Still first down.

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

setsailsoon said:
dog,

Best strategy is to get a TFP recommended test kit.Test Kits Compared. We don't sell them but there are many places you can get them. The only thing we rely on pool store tests for is metals. Phosphates don't matter but pool stores provide this to sell you on expensive phosphate remover chemicals. If you stay within TFP recommendations phosphates don't matter. Copper indicates you have been using algaecide. This is not recommended click here to learn why.

We can't really recommend a maintenance strategy based on pool store results since they are often inaccurate and reacting to them can create problems. Once you get the recommended test kit of your choice use TFP guidelines. ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. It's really pretty simple... run a complete set of tests initially. Focus on FC, CC, pH initially and frequently until you get to know your specific pool and adjust to stay in proper ranges. Use Pool Math app to figure out how much chemical to add. Once you get this down you can back off to a couple times per week or even less for salt pools. Other tests should be run every week at least until you get to see the trends, then as you bring these into recommended ranges you can back off. If you have any questions after reading through this material please don't hesitate to ask. TFP methods are used by over 300,000 people very successfully and also very cost effectively since we use generic chemicals available at big box stores instead of the exact same ingredients at expensive pool stores. We all needed a little help getting started and that's a big part of what TFP volunteers do.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

I use a tf 100 pro. These results matched mine somewhat but I had the pool store test it too and posted that. I don't trust my eyes on the CYA test and also the PH test color is subjective. I got the pH meter but haven't calibrated it yet.

So I'm most concerned about high base pH and high base TA, and what downstream effects those will have.

Newdude · May 28, 2022

ddoggphx said:
So I'm most concerned about high base pH and high base TA, and what downstream effects those will have.

None. They aren't high. They are slightly above target range. If you add 500 gallons of 140 TA water to 10k gallons a week, it will raise the PH and TA by 5% of the difference each between the two values.

Now. CH, CYA or salt compound. And 5% + 5% + 5% would add up quickly.

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

Wobblerlorri said:
Is this the water right out of your tap? Just like you'd go get a glass of water? City water?

If it is, testing it at the pool store proves how pool store testing is. FC in city water should be closer to 0.6, pH should be around 7.5 and (the big tell) there should be NO cyanuric acid. None, zip, de nada. CYA is not added by any city water facility in this country, or any other I'm aware of. A CYA of 5 is too high to be a genuine result, and means it's either a technical error (machine not calibrated) or user error (the person doing the test didn't do it right).

If it's well water, there should be no FC or CC unless you chlorinate your well, and definitely NO CYA.

Get yourself a TF-100 or a Taylor K2006C (links on my sig) and take over your own testing. While you wait for it to get here, don't do anything except add 3 to 5 ppm liquid chlorine every day, and add about 20 ppm CYA, using the sock method. When you get your kit, practice testing on the tap water til you're confident, then test your pool water. Post the results here in this format

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Then we can advise you on how to balance and care for your pool. We only offer advice based on testing with a preferred kit. I suggest you read ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry, Recommended Levels, andPoolMath, a nifty app for calculating the math of owning a pool. Use PoolMath to calculate how much CYA to add, and how much liquid chlorine provides 3 to 5 ppm FC.

Looking forward to your results!

It's from our outside spigot. I tested these with my TF 100 Pro as well prior to dropping off at leslies. FC was between 1.5 and 1 (almost clear with 2 drops but not quite). TA was 150. PH very red. I don't trust my eyes in subjective tests like pH (ordered the meter) and CYA.

So I'm concerned about high pH and TA in my fill water and what's that's going to do, especially since pH is gonna climb as my pebble cures (2 week old pool).

I appreciate the links and info, but I'm already on that train. Water looks amazing.

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

setsailsoon said:
Copper indicates you have been using algaecide. This is not recommended click here to learn why.

We haven't used anything but MA and liquid chlorine, and a little bit of CYA in a sock after startup to raise it up into range. It's at about 65 rn.

So copper in the fill water was weird. To be fair, it tests at 0 in the pool water itself.

Newdude · May 28, 2022

ddoggphx said:
So I'm concerned about high pH and TA in my fill water and what's that's going to do, especially since pH is gonna climb as my pebble cures (2 week old pool).

For the first while up to a year, you'll be knocking down the PH fairly often and your fill water won't even come close to making a difference.

Once the plaster is fully cured, it still won't be enough to even register on either test, and the adds will be wiped out with ypur regular managing of thr PH. (Without making you manage it more often)

Newdude · May 28, 2022

500 gallons equals 5% of your pool.

95% 7.4 pool Ph. +
5% 8.1. Fill ph
=7.43 new pool Ph.

TA will be similar.

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

Newdude said:
500 gallons equals 5% of your pool.

95% 7.4 pool Ph. +
5% 8.1. Fill ph
=7.43 new pool Ph.

TA will be similar.

This is the peace of mind I was looking for.

setsailsoon · May 28, 2022

dog,

ddoggphx said:
I use a tf 100 pro. These results matched mine somewhat but I had the pool store test it too and posted that. I don't trust my eyes on the CYA test and also the PH test color is subjective. I got the pH meter but haven't calibrated it yet.

So I'm most concerned about high base pH and high base TA, and what downstream effects those will have.

dog,

OK, CYA test is hardest one to read so it's natural to think the pool store test will be better but it's not. Your results are better than you think. Just remember to round up to the next 10 multiple. When you do the CYA test do it out doors with sun to your back. Don't look at the tube continuously or your eyes will play tricks on you. Just glance down the back up. I had the same problem 7 years ago when I joined and @kimkats plus others helped me. This really works and you have already proven the pool store number can't be correct. I also have the pH reading problem that's more common in men. Is there a lady of the house that can read it? My wife's reading matched the calibrated meter virtually 100%. Speaking of which, what meter did you get? I used them for years with great success but found the cheaper ones almost worthless. But there are several well under $50 that last several years with very accurate results.

Chris

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

setsailsoon said:
dog,

dog,

OK, CYA test is hardest one to read so it's natural to think the pool store test will be better but it's not. Your results are better than you think. Just remember to round up to the next 10 multiple. When you do the CYA test do it out doors with sun to your back. Don't look at the tube continuously or your eyes will play tricks on you. Just glance down the back up. I had the same problem 7 years ago when I joined and @kimkats plus others helped me. This really works and you have already proven the pool store number can't be correct. I also have the pH reading problem that's more common in men. Is there a lady of the house that can read it? My wife's reading matched the calibrated meter virtually 100%. Speaking of which, what meter did you get? I used them for years with great success but found the cheaper ones almost worthless. But there are several well under $50 that last several years with very accurate results.

Chris

I got this one

TFTestkits.net

tftestkits.net

Oh I think you solved a problem for me on Cya test..I continually stare at it and my eyes play tricks on me. I will try glancing today.

My wife has helped read the pH test before lol..but when it's above 8 it is useless. I mean I know I gotta add MA but how much is what I love about the poolmath app, so I want more precise numbers..I hope the meter helps.

Thanks!!

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

FYI these are my current numbers. Just tested.

I get to turn on my SWG in two weeks, so I'm very excited about that. Obviously I need to add chlorine right now, this pool is gobbling it up.

.ben · May 28, 2022

When my pH is above 8.2, I just assume it is 8.2 for calculations, add MA, and test again later that day.

Don’t be surprised if you feel you are constantly adding MA to keep your pH in the 7’s for new pebble plaster. I used about 1/2 gal of MA every 2-3 days for the first couple of months. I’m now on month 4 and use about 1/3 gal every 2-3 days.

setsailsoon · May 28, 2022

ddoggphx said:
FYI these are my current numbers. Just tested.

I get to turn on my SWG in two weeks, so I'm very excited about that. Obviously I need to add chlorine right now, this pool is gobbling it up.

Yep, you got it already! I'd run the FC up around 8. You're gonna need to fiddle around with it once you let the swg do the chlorinating and it will be easier to start on the high side. TA will drop as you add acid each week to control pH so I wouldn't over-work that result. For most new pools pH is a real challenge during the first year so you'll most likely be adding it couple times per week. You should try to watch ph and keep it between 7.0 and 8.0 at all times unless your builder requires something else for break in.

As to the pH probe, I never used the one you have but I found similar units just didn't last very long. There are several that are $30-$50 and they have proven to be much more reliable. But all of them have a fixed life because the electrolyte is not replaceable and it is consumed when you take readings. My favorite so far was the Hanna Phep series. Others have had good luck with Apera brand also.

I hope this helps

Chris

ddoggphx · May 28, 2022

setsailsoon said:
Yep, you got it already! I'd run the FC up around 8. You're gonna need to fiddle around with it once you let the swg do the chlorinating and it will be easier to start on the high side. TA will drop as you add acid each week to control pH so I wouldn't over-work that result. For most new pools pH is a real challenge during the first year so you'll most likely be adding it couple times per week. You should try to watch ph and keep it between 7.0 and 8.0 at all times unless your builder requires something else for break in.

As to the pH probe, I never used the one you have but I found similar units just didn't last very long. There are several that are $30-$50 and they have proven to be much more reliable. But all of them have a fixed life because the electrolyte is not replaceable and it is consumed when you take readings. My favorite so far was the Hanna Phep series. Others have had good luck with Apera brand also.

I hope this helps

Chris

Thanks on those probe alternatives. I bet they will help.

Any advice on what "turns red" or "turns blue" means, as it's more pink or purple. I drop until the color doesn't change (darkest pink or darkest purple) and use the drop before that as the count. Seemed logical to me.

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