First Time Bullfrog Owner - Need help with Frog Ease System

Step 1 - Get rid of the Frog system

Step 2- Read through the starter information here.

Some information for you. The Frog system uses a different form of Chlorine than either bleach (liquid chlorine) or Dichlor (pucks or granules). The Frog is basically the same as those things you hang inside you toilet tanks. One side effect of this system is that it makes it impossible to measure CC's. The frog chlorine shows up as CCs and will send your CC readings off the charts.

The Spa Guard Shock Oxidizer is likely non-Chlorine shock (MPS). Many of us do not like using it because there are many people who are allergic to MPS and develop bad rashes when the get in a hot tub where it is used (Google MPS Allergy or MPS Rash). MPS is not a sanitizer either, it is an oxidizer. It helps burn off dead stuff, but it will not kill alive stuff. You still need a sanitizer (bleach) to do that. There is nothing wrong with MPS shock per se - it does what it is supposed to do - oxidize waste. But it does not sanitize, and it may cause rashes, so why use it.

Dichlor is a combination of Chlorine and Stabilizer (CYA). There is a love/hate relationship between the two. The more CYA you have, the more buffered your CL is - it is less harsh and it lasts longer. However, the more CYA you have, the more CL you need in order for it to be an effective sanitizer. You should be shooting for a CYA of 20-40 ppm or so in your tub. If you have been adding DiChlor, chances are you are over that number. In my A6, one ounce of DiChlor raises CYA by 11 ppm. Call it 8 ppm for you. How many ounces of DiChlor have you added? CYA does not go down, you need to change water to get rid of it.

The Frog claims it works by keeping a low level of Cl in the tub at all times. But, now that you have added CYA, it is likely too low.

I tried the free Frog that came with my A6 - I used the free set of cartages, and then stopped using it.

My process is as follows

1) Purge With Ahhsome
2) Fill tub
3) Adjust pH with Muriatic Acid and bring CL to shock level with DiChlor
4) Keep using DiChlor for CL until I get to 30 ppm of CYA
5) Switch to bleach
6) I check my TA, CL, and pH. Takes about a week to get the TA/pH dialed in, and then it is stable.
7) I use AquaClarity once a week
8) I add Cl (bleach) once a day, and then again if I use the tub.
9) I check pH often, but only because with a meter, it takes about 5 seconds.

I never use MPS,

sirslimjim said:

Thank you for the response! Was your decision to stop using the Frog system driven more by the high ongoing costs associated with the smartchlor/mineral cartridges or more so because you had sanitation concerns about its ability to properly clean the water? TBH i like the idea of not having to add supplemental chlorine every day or after each use which is what attracted me to the Frog system in the first place. High operating costs aside do you feel it does an adequate job of cleaning the water so long as no additional dichlor is introduced into the water beyond the start-up packet? Been using MPS for about 3 weeks now and havent had any issues with skin irritation thus far. Our spa came with an Ozone generator module which I've read can result in lower FC readings. Still though, a FC level of .3 has me concerned.

To answer your question, I had the water tested two days ago at the dealer and it showed a CYA of 5. At their recommendation I shocked the water that day with 3 tablespoons of Enhanced Shock so that number has probably ticked up since then. Obviously after reading this I wont be adding any more until I do a purge and refill.

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I stopped with the Frog for a number of reasons. I have been using TFP methods in my pool for years. I like knowing exactly what is in my pool and exactly what I am adding. I don't like mysteries. Such as the inability to measure CC's or the inability to know what exactly the Frog system is adding. A hot tub is a very dynamic water system. A pool has a lot of volume compared to the number of bathers (most of the time). Things are fairly stable in a pool. In a hot tub, things change a lot more quickly. Something like the Frog that is a steady release does not sit well. Even with a frog system, you should be adding supplemental sanitizer after you use the tub.

Expense was not an issue. If it actually worked, and allowed me to measure what is in my tub, I would have no problem paying for something that took care of daily maintenance for me. I am considering a SWCG for just such a reason (I use one in my pool already). I just don't like "add ons" - hanging one over the edge and running an extension cord. I may work on something so it is more integrated, but that is just my preference.
In all honesty, checking my hot tub daily is not that big a deal. I checked FC, CC, pH, and TA this morning and added Bleach, Acid, and Baking Soda this morning before work. Took me 10 minutes, the bulk of which was walking back upstairs to the kitchen to get baking soda, since I don't keep a dedicated box next to the hot tub.

Speaking of measuring, how are you measuring an FC of 0.3? The drop based tests have a resolution of 0.5 ppm. Or did you double the volume of water to 20ml so each drop represents 0.25 ppm?

Dealer test results vary wildly. Often if you take the same sample into them twice, you will get two different results.

As far as MPS is concerned. You may not have a rash now, but may develop one after you become sensitized. Or maybe your friends who have never been in your tub come over and they are immediately allergic, or your nephew, or your grandkids, or whomever. MPS shock is useful, but it is not NECESSARY. In my opinion, there was no need to me to use it, so I don't.

An ozone generator will burn off you FC quicker than no ozone generator. That is true. Some people believe in them, some believe they are only useful if your tub runs 24hr constant filtration, others don't like them at all. The fact is, the ozone generator only sanitized what is in the ozone generator. If you have something growing in a pipe, and that something does not get sucked into the ozone generator, it is going to keep growing. Ozone does not mix into the water of the tub, float around, and get everywhere. It only sanitizes what actually goes through the generator. So you still need a sanitizer in your water (bleach or bromine). Your ozone generator also does not work when people are in the tub - if you manually activate a jet, adjust the lights, or do anything else with the controls, the tub will assume there are people in there and turn off ozone. It will only generate ozone during its scheduled filter cycle. Maybe during automatic heating cycles, that I am not sure about on Bullfrogs.

sirslimjim said:

Hello! First time hot tub owner and desperately hoping to find an answer to this issue. Have had our Bullfrog A8 for about 3 weeks now and have been using it almost every night since. It came equipped with the inline cartridge Frog @ ease system which was sold to us a a more 'efficient' way to manage chlorine maintenance.

I ended up purchasing a Taylor test kit at the advice of several posts on this website and its consistently showing FC levels of <1 and a Combined/Total Chlorine level of 10+. Took a water sample in to the dealer and they confirmed that my FC is 0.3 and my CC is ~11. Based on where you get your info from this is either normal expected behavior from the Frog @ ease system or serious cause for concern. I've been shocking the water each week with with the SpaGuard Spa Shock-Oxidizer (non Enhanced). I feel like i'm getting mixed messages from the Bullfrog dealer vs what I'm reading on online hot tub forums. One person told me i should be adding extra dichlor after each use because of the low FC levels. Others have said not to add extra dichlor after each use because the @ ease system will automatically regulate. Honestly wondering if it's just easier to ditch the Frog system altogether at this point and adopt the dichlor/bleach routine.

Went in to the Bullfrog dealer today and talked with a sales rep and told him my FC level was .3 and he advised that we start using Enhanced Shock instead of the MPS shock. I asked if he was concerned about this raising CYA levels and he didn't seem to think it would be a problem. He said that the Frog ease system was really only designed for moderate hot tub use (2-3 times per week) and not for daily use as the Smartchlor cartridges wont be able to sufficiently keep up.

At this point i'm feeling a bit frustrated by the conflicting info I've been getting. Our other water levels (PH/TA/CH) are within normal ranges and the water itself is visibly clear and not cloudy. Can anyone in a similar situation share their water maintenance routine? Would greatly appreciate any advice or tips. Thank you in advance!

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Here is the deal…..the @ease works amazing. Sounds like your water quality has been good so far. When it comes to testing, only use the Frog @ease strips to test your sanitizer. DO NOT worry about traditional methods of testing chlorine as you will get super confused. Use regular (non chlorine MPS oxidizer) shock once or twice a week and do not add any chlorine on a regular basis. Make sure you test the @ease system with a strip at least once a week and make sure you are maintaining an adequate sanitizer level. The system works amazing, I use it personally……our hot tub is used about 5 days a week and we have 3 teenage boys.….and no one is showering before use. Our water is perfect and maintaining ph and alkalinity is part of that!

The @ease system works. It's easy to use and has minimal maintenance. BUT, it's not cheap to run and the smartchlor cartridges don't last anywhere as long as King wants you to believe. I have a 300 gal tub and if I'm lucky, I could get 4 weeks out of a smartchlor cartridge, usually 3-3.5 weeks was my average.

You can't refill the smartchlor cartridge so that in itself is wasteful. While the actual compound can be found thru chemical companies, an individual can't buy it so it might as well be proprietary.

I have just switched over to dichlor/bleach simply because my dealer included a years worth of @ease cartridges with my purchase. In reality, it's only just a bit more work using dichlor/bleach but it is so much cheaper.

sirslimjim said:

Ha thanks for sharing your experience with it. Sometimes I wonder if people make water maintenance more confusing than it needs to be. Seems like the system is working as advertised for you which is good to know.

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The thing is, it is really not that confusing. The problem is, you cannot always see when something is wrong with your water, and things can go wrong.

Testing enables you to see what is going on, but the Frog system makes it difficult to test.

Testing is pretty darn easy considering test strips are included. Easy and simple. Many of us pay each day for premium products in our lives that are convenient and save time…….this is definitely a life saver. To each their own, I love this system and hands down it works fantastic.

Frog @ease system can work. Success depends on your expectations and usage patterns.

Once past the initial startup, FC with @ease will test around .5 to 1.5. With very little CYA in the water, in theory that's an adequate level of sanitizer since it is consistently there. CC will normally indicate your remaining reserve chlorine. When indicated CC's decline with @ease, it is likely time to replace the cartridge (or increase the setting dial to use up what remains in an almost empty cartridge). I'd be careful about adding dichlor beyond the initial startup packet... it'd be easy to increase CYA to the point where .5 - 1.5 FC is not effective.

I eventually gave up on @ease after trying it with an open mind. In my case, the problems would develop after 6-8 weeks: slightly cloudy, foamy water. I believe the root cause was that @ease never achieves high enough levels of FC to really oxidize bather waste after a soak (we even shower before soaking, and no kids). That may be why weekly shocks with MPS is recommended. Even that didn't seem a complete solution. So then I would use a dose of clarifier. At that point @ease becomes more work and expense for substandard results. On top of that, the "silver mineral" cartridge left a permanent yellow stain in my filter compartment underneath the cartridge holder. In-line systems may be better in that regard.

Here's where expectations come in... I know a lot of hot tub owners don't blink an eye at slightly cloudy / foamy water. I guess they're happy it's not green or stinky. Years of maintaining my prior tub with TFP-recommended method had shown me that a tub can be 100% sparkling and clear for many months at a time with cheap off-the-shelf supplies from the local hardware store. It's not rocket science, either.

The TFP-recommended dichlor/bleach method is easy if you can tend to the tub every day or so. If you need to leave it for a few days to a week for travel, you can dose the chlorine up and turn the temp down. Beyond that, a number of members here (myself included) have had similarly excellent results with a salt water chlorine generator (SWCG) for hot tubs. My previous tub I plumbed one in and could leave it for weeks, or in one case, months during travel. That said, even a SWCG system is still basically following the dichlor/bleach method, just that you're generating bleach on-site instead of buying it.

To be clear, I'm not against @ease. I'd even recommend it vs. intermittent neglect or "chemical free alternative" hocus-pocus. That said, you can get better results for less expense following the TFP method.

Hope that helps.

sirslimjim said:

Thanks for the response. I'm about 5 weeks in using the Frog system and so far the water quality still seems good. (Clear and doesnt smell funky). I have been adding a small dash of liquid chlorine after I use it each night to try to supplement the low levels of FC from the Frog cartridge. Hoping that maybe by doing that I'll bridge the gap between the concerns of the low FC levels not oxidizing waste and the convenience of the Frog system. In your opinion does that seem like a reasonable approach?

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Give it a try and post your results. Sounds reasonable to me. I'd be curious to know if your FC rises after you add bleach.

If that works long term for your expectations, you'll have to decide if @ease provides sufficient value in addition to the manual post-soak dosing.

Timmbo23 said:

Testing is pretty darn easy considering test strips are included. Easy and simple. Many of us pay each day for premium products in our lives that are convenient and save time…….this is definitely a life saver. To each their own, I love this system and hands down it works fantastic.

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If you are making an argument for test strips, you really have not been around these forums much. Test strips - matching a color to a color on a scale with a wide range is values for each color listed is next to useless.

It is more of a feel good panacea than actually giving you useful information.

sirslimjim said:

Thanks for the response. I'm about 5 weeks in using the Frog system and so far the water quality still seems good. (Clear and doesnt smell funky). I have been adding a small dash of liquid chlorine after I use it each night to try to supplement the low levels of FC from the Frog cartridge. Hoping that maybe by doing that I'll bridge the gap between the concerns of the low FC levels not oxidizing waste and the convenience of the Frog system. In your opinion does that seem like a reasonable approach?

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That seems like a reasonable approach. I used @Ease for 6 months with the same results and concerns as BravoRomeo. I was used to TFP from my pool and the water in the hot tub with @Ease was not up to par. Again, I made a decision not to use MPS shock. My one daughter gets occasional eczema and we have friends and family that use the hot tub at times and I did not know if any of them were allergic, and MPS is a common enough allergen that I decided not to use it. I did supplement with bleach and sort of worked. Maybe I needed to dose higher to oxidize the waste.

I really wished the @Ease would work. My pool requires almost no effort. Once I get it balanced and running at the beginning of the season, my SWCG takes care of everything. I check it on the weekends and adjust anything (pH, TA, etc) if needed. I can just do an OTO test during the week to make sure nothing is broken or out of whack. I was really hoping I could get my hot tub to the same place with @Ease, but it was just not happening.

I think sometimes people do not realize what a clean pool or tub really looks like. Take a look at some of the pictures on this site. Pictures of pools where you can clearly see a dime at the bottom of the pool. That is what I expect in my hot tub too. The water with @Ease was "OK" but it was a little hazy, and it would foam. And again, the fact that I could not accurately test with @Ease was an other drawback.

Long time member and recent buyer of a bulfrog A8, fantastic thread here, thank you. I'm about 5 weeks into ownership and starting to get cloudy water. Dealer gave me a ton of the usual junk with no guidance on what to use when... Being a proponent of the TFP method I knew I would end up back here... Long and short I'll be on the TFP way again shortly.

A thought based on the funky cant get it anywhere version of CL in the cartridge they use, would it be possible to save the 2 remaining starter @ease cartridges for when I'm out of town for an extended period? Or better to just pay the neighbor kid to put some bleach in on occasion?

Chuckle ... just realized my sig still had TFP Moderator in it from 5 years ago when I had a pool in Houston. Sorry about that @Leebo ... fixed it. .

karmabiker said:

Long time member and recent buyer of a bulfrog A8, fantastic thread here, thank you. I'm about 5 weeks into ownership and starting to get cloudy water. Dealer gave me a ton of the usual junk with no guidance on what to use when... Being a proponent of the TFP method I knew I would end up back here... Long and short I'll be on the TFP way again shortly.

A thought based on the funky cant get it anywhere version of CL in the cartridge they use, would it be possible to save the 2 remaining starter @ease cartridges for when I'm out of town for an extended period? Or better to just pay the neighbor kid to put some bleach in on occasion?

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Congrats on the tub. I wondered about that as well. When I was running @ease and trying to burn off the eventual cloudy water by manually adding more chlorine, I could never get the FC to go above 1 or 1.5. It was probably due to the buildup of waste over time, and I was way behind the power curve. Still, part of me wondered if any FC added was somehow converting into the reserve. I was told here at TFP that was not chemically possible. The experience did made me wonder of the value of even trying to use the @ease cartridges as a "vacation hold" and what it might do to my water chemistry afterwards.

In the end, we sold our unopened @ease cartridges on eBay for full price. I guess they were in short supply for a while.

If you do try using a cartridge as a vacation hold, please follow up with how that goes, and if you can resume normal manual dosing after just fine.

You MUST use MPS on a consistent basis. The water is then nothing but crystal clear perfection provided you are maintaining ph, alkalinity, and calcium. I am adding 1-2 tbsp about 2-3 times a week. We have 3 active young teenage boys, no showering before use. I NEVER use clarifier or defoamer. I rinse filters monthly. Works awesome. I have owned a hot tub since 2003 and this is hands down the easiest system.

karmabiker said:

Long time member and recent buyer of a bulfrog A8, fantastic thread here, thank you. I'm about 5 weeks into ownership and starting to get cloudy water. Dealer gave me a ton of the usual junk with no guidance on what to use when... Being a proponent of the TFP method I knew I would end up back here... Long and short I'll be on the TFP way again shortly.

A thought based on the funky cant get it anywhere version of CL in the cartridge they use, would it be possible to save the 2 remaining starter @ease cartridges for when I'm out of town for an extended period? Or better to just pay the neighbor kid to put some bleach in on occasion?

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The issue with using the frog that way is that it is designed to use with a very low level of CYA. It will keep +/- 2ppm of FC in your water. If your CYA is in the 30 - 40 ppm range because you are using bleach, and then stick the frog back in, the 2ppm of CL is going to be too low at that CYA level to be an effective sanitizer.

phonedave said:

The issue with using the frog that way is that it is designed to use with a very low level of CYA. It will keep +/- 2ppm of FC in your water. If your CYA is in the 30 - 40 ppm range because you are using bleach, and then stick the frog back in, the 2ppm of CL is going to be too low at that CYA level to be an effective sanitizer.

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Great info and exactly what I was looking for. Looks like the local kid has a gig when we are out of town... Sounds like im going full TFP with no @ease...