New Liner, Fresh Water, Immediate Close Balance Recommendations

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PoolStored

PoolStored

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TFP Guide
Jun 24, 2021
7,580
Ashtabula, OH
Pool Size
30000
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60
New to me (DEC 2020) pool, new Liner tomorrow! Store called at noon today and said we are coming tomorrow, have the pool drained. I had prepared and tested my sump. 21 hours. That means if I get it it NOW it will be ready by 9am. Scrambled and got it going. So far so good!

I have to close this pool, after filling and balancing. I have 3-4 days before I need to travel.

TAP results: pH 8 or 8++, TA 110

Found most of my answers on balancing, and if I needed CYA for winter (no), through search here.

Very specific question I couldn't find answers for:
1) My pH was in the 6s when we opened this spring. Not sure if that was due to whatever they put in in the fall, or that's what happens over the winter in Ohio. Any specific recommendations on TA and pH for close? I figured I'd just get the pH down to 7.4-7.6 and go. Was wondering if TA=100 would cause pH to rise over winter. (Will likely pull a corner every month and test. If it radically rises or drops, put sump in for 2-3 hours and balance).
2) Will follow the TFP winterization recommendations best I can within my time constraints (raise FC and Add Polyquat 60). The question is...if I have no CYA in the pool, what should my target FC be?
3) Would be easier to blow out lines now, fill to just below skimmer. However, I need to circulate LC and MA. Is a sump pump on the bottom sufficient to circulate? (I speculate yes).

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
If possible I would get cya to about 20- 30ppm so u can have some fc in the water over the winter without it being too harsh on your new liner. Otherwise 3ppm will be gone quickly after close. Without cya anything above 3-5ppm is pretty harsh.
You could use some dichlor to help accomplish this if u have any available since your fill ph is so high- just check w/ PoolMath effects of adding to keep track of the ph & cya effects. Or Since the water will be cold you could get a bucket of hot water to put a cya sock in & help it dissolve as well. Then transfer that to the pool in the stream of the pump or fill hose. Once it gets squishy it should dissolve easily.
Depending solely on polyquat makes me nervous. It’s just to prevent algea not other nasties.
I wouldn’t worry about ta too much so long as it’s not too low- as u said u can check the ph periodically over the winter & adjust as necessary.
A sump pump should be fine for circulation- if u do add cya let that circulate for 24 hrs.
 
+1 that the sump pump should be enough. But you’re *extra*. Being a tad extra myself, I’d also spend a few minutes brushing it around. Both MA and LC are heavier than water and may puddle up on your brand new liner. So brush the area and also wherever you were brushing to, as you don’t want half a puddle there. It’s literally just a few minutes and you’ll sleep like a baby all winter. (y)
 
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Thanks for the help, worked out great. Added about 3.5 lbs of CYA and got pool to 40, enough MA to reduce pH to 7.2 and enough chlorine to get to 7. Call it good. Added CYA, MA and CL as water truck added to the pool, to keep it balanced as we went (pre-tested water, same source as house). Prepped and diluted CYA, MA an CL in advance in pails with hot water, at least 30/1 MA and 16/1 on the CL. Hose at 150GPM mixed stuff up very quickly. PQ60 added with 3rd to last load. crossing fingers i did right!
 
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Glad u got it all wrapped up!
For future reference you could have just poured the ma in slowly in the stream of fill hose when the water was high enough to reach. Then brushed around a bit.
Diluting ma just makes a larger volume acid to handle (albeit less concentrated) that has the potential to be spilled/splashed etc.
 
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So, for grins, I pulled back the corner of the cover and did a test (pH and FC). pH still at 7.2. FC came back at 4.5 (EEEEK... OCLT FAIL). Do you think something is brewing? (we had 1-2" of rain). Water temp 56. Have to be away for a week. I'll see what the FC status is when I get back. If FC is down some more, or 0, should I re-open, fill up, SLAM and re-close? Really don't want to open to a swamp in the spring.

Only other thought is that I was adding CYA, CL and MA with each truck add. Maybe the fill didn't mix as much as I thought and was chasing false tests (said 7, but hadn't mixed yet) or calculations (I did calculate CL add for each truck). i.e. I calculated what to add with each truck (he knew the volumes).
 
PoolStored said:
So, for grins, I pulled back the corner of the cover and did a test (pH and FC). pH still at 7.2. FC came back at 4.5 (EEEEK... OCLT FAIL). Do you think something is brewing? (we had 1-2" of rain). Water temp 56. Have to be away for a week. I'll see what the FC status is when I get back. If FC is down some more, or 0, should I re-open, fill up, SLAM and re-close? Really don't want to open to a swamp in the spring.

Only other thought is that I was adding CYA, CL and MA with each truck add. Maybe the fill didn't mix as much as I thought and was chasing false tests (said 7, but hadn't mixed yet) or calculations (I did calculate CL add for each truck). i.e. I calculated what to add with each truck (he knew the volumes).
Click to expand...

Keep in mind Polyquat will cause FC to drop some.
 
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Testing unmixed water after a big rain is tricky too. Meh. Either way it’ll be fine. Test/add mid winter in between freezes and again after it thaws for good.

I eventually gave up on the PQ because to me it seems to counterproductive. It gets eaten by the LC which considerably reduces both. Then you need the PQ with less FC. But you have less PQ at that point too……. 🤦‍♂️
 
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Newdude said:
Testing unmixed water after a big rain is tricky too. Meh. Either way it’ll be fine. Test/add mid winter in between freezes and again after it thaws for good.

I eventually gave up on the PQ because to me it seems to counterproductive. It gets eaten by the LC which considerably reduces both. Then you need the PQ with less FC. But you have less PQ at that point too……. 🤦‍♂️
Click to expand...

There’s an old post somewhere (from Chemgeek?) that says the manufacturer of polyquat (I think there is just one) explained the poly chains broken apart by chlorine are still effective in preventing algae growth. I’ll see if I can find it.

EDIT:

It’s mentioned on the TFP Wiki page

Algaecide - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Saturn94 said:
:)explained the poly chains broken apart by chlorine are still effective in preventing algae growth
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. It definitely does. But it’s at the expense of half (?) of the Slam FC lost. Which also would have bought plenty of time to make it to the cold season.

We are pretty much split on how we feel about it. Nobody thinks it’s a bad thing but half of us think it’s counter productive. Either way one is protected and we agree on said protection. :)
 
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