Now Considering OB in Houston

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M

markmac

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Jun 29, 2011
183
Texas
After meeting with PB(s), and receiving price(s), I'm now leaning more towards an OB pool. I've asked a few questions in various threads, but figured I'd start a new OB one, to ask for input before taking the step of submitting my sketches to pooleng to create a drawing for permits. I'm a PE, so comfortable with designing a project workflow, timeline, sub-contractors, and working the plan. However, I'm not in the construction field of engineering.

We've owned a pool in the past and had the VS, SWG, and know I want them again for sure. I also used the TFP method for years, so no question on that path.

Here's the general breakdown of what I'm planning. I've also attached pictures of the sketches. One pic of the lot, with the pool position and equipment nearby. The second is the hand sketch I'm going back and forth on now, before submitting to pooleng. I'm not sure how much detail they need, outside the layout 2D plan view. Its Houston, so the lot is pretty flat, except a slight grade for drainage.

In-Ground Pool
15x29 Geometric Gunite
North/South running shallow to deep, with shallow being South side, and in shadow of the House until late morning
Pebble(ish) plaster (yet to be decided)
3.5'-7' depth with most of pool being between 3.5' and 5' and only last 1/3rd dropping deep
Small corner stairs to max swim space
No sun ledge, nor bubblers
18" Bench run shallow to deep
Small bench between columns
2 skimmers
4 x returns
Overflow Line to street
Autofill
4 x LED MicroBrite lights pointed away from viewing area.

Spa
7x7 spa on one side - outside pool to max swim space
360 Perimeter Overflow into trough, then spillway back into pool.
1 x LED MicroBrite light

Outside Pool
Raised wall
Two columns
Two Natural Gas Fire Bowl (one on each column)
1 X Large 36" descent in middle of wall
Umbrella sleeves at various locations
Travertine coping
Paver Decking (material TBD)

Equipment (located less than 20' from pool and 15' to gas meter. Elec Panel is other side of lot, 100' away)
VS Pump - Pentair 3HP
Blower for Spa (if needed. Spa is ~50' from equipment pad)
SWG - IC40
Pentair 400k BTU heater
Pentair 520 Cartridge Filter
Pentair IntelliCenter w/ IC40 transformer, and two Automation Valves
Second adjacent concrete pad for future pool supply box/shed
Robot Cleaner

Questions
1. I'm trying to read up on Best Practices for the plumbing pipe size. Seems like if I run 2.5" at a minimum, with all returns having separate runs, I'm safe. However it also seems recommended to run 3" to the SPA for both supply and return? And A loop?
2. Any advice for skimmer placements? We're in a master plan community, with fencing all around, so no really prevailing winds.
3. For a full 360-degree spill over spa, what is the recommended width of the spill way, if any? I assume the coping will overhang some, so if I make it 5", and the coping hangs over 2", woudl that be sufficient?
4. If I have an 18" bench running the full length (shallow to deep), on the closest side, should the lights go above or below the bench? I assume if above, the bench would cause a shadow. I'm not sure how deep (water depth) benches are, but assume not much more than 12"
5. I'm looking at the MicroBrites. Would 4 running full length evenly spaced on the 30' side be too much? Currently I spaced out two, and put one in shallow end (house side, firing away), and one under the small bench under the Descent, shooting upward. Suggestions?
6. Can the MicroBrites be installed on an angle (somewhat)? I'm also wondering about positioning two closer to the corners and shooting light towards the center instead.
7. If I go OB, which sub's typically handle the gas runs from the meter? The Plumber? Whomever trenches to the pad, would just need to trench another 15' to the gas meter on the other side.
8. If I go OB, which sub does the waterline tile, and coping? I plan to have a sub for paver decking, so I assume it would be the same? If I'm doing glass tile for the raised 360 sill over spa, should I be looking for a special tile shop?
9. For the spa, are they just returns, with different heads? Any advice on how many, and layout for a 7x7 IG spa. Number of jets? Blower? Lots of threads but all seem very specific and I couldn't find a "how to design an IG spa"
10. Should I plan a separate pump for either the Spa or Descent? Or both?
11. Recommendation on Return locations? I assume 1, if not two, running along bench to keep clean.

For anyone who's utilized Pooleng, is what I have sketched with dimensions added sufficient for them to run with? Their site suggests a fairly fast turn around.

If anyone has subs in Houston to recommend, that would be appreciated. I'm foreseeing a week or two of chasing up subs for quotes after i get the drawings back from pooleng, and I know this is the busy time of the year for all the subs.
 

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Hi, I am starting an OB in League City (south Houston). I used Dennis at pooldesign.net for plans. I would not recommend them if you are in a hurry - my plans took a month and I still don't know why they took so long. As far as gas run, the plumber does that. I am using Vasquez plumbing for my pool. All the subs are SO busy. I am calling people everyday. For tile and coping, several plaster places do that. Also two gunite companies do it all - JR Plastering and Gunite (I got a quote from them but it was very high) and Azteca (I've called and emailed several times over the past month and still have not gotten a quote from them). I am probably going to use Houston Gunite for excavation, rebar, and gunite. They are one of the few companies that got back with me right away with a quote and they answer the phone when I call. For the glass tile there are so many choices! There is keystone tile, noble tile, national pool tile (NPT) - all the places are on the NW side of Houston. I would suggest going there and looking at tile. For plumbing, we don't have a spa (we have a stand alone hot tub already). So we have 2" skimmer lines, 3" main drain, 2.5" return which goes into 2" for each individual return. Apparently, those are bigger than normal and the plumber increased his quote due to the sizes.
 
I'm having Supreme Pools build mine up in Spring. It was painted/flagged for utilities on June 3rd, June 4th it was excavated, June 5th rebar & pre plumb, and now June 8th MMG is out here shooting gunite.
I think they used Martinez Excavation.
 
I'm hope to turn over my drawings to pool engineering Monday. I've moved from hand sketches to ACAD now, so I can better move and change things, as well as measure. I've attached my current layout. The only item not shown is the pad, which is just off the bottom right at the corner of the house (say 3' from house corner).

I need to figure out the airflow for the spa, and would like to avoid a blower. Spa water will be ~16" above decking, and 22" above pool water. My pad will be 30' away from the spa, assuming the airline would run the perimeter of the pool. I assume you don't want the airline going under the pool, as I could shoot it across the shallow side (15'), and hide the hartford loop behind the raised wall. The red line at the top of the pool is a utility easement, so I can't do much up there. The only other idea to minimize the run would be the garage. Its unframed inside, so I could punch through and have it inside out of sight.

I'm now torn on the overflow perimeter spa, due to generating enough flow to make it truly work (and if perfectly leveled). Assuming the perimeter overflow for now, I've added a separate spa pump that will be tied to one pool skimmer. Since both pool and spa pumps circulate water back to the spa, I add a few more lower jets.

Anything I'm leaving out on the plumbing side? Spa has three slightly different seat levels if it looks confusing.
 

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What does the pop up valve do?
The plumbers were out here Friday and they ended up not installing the spa blower, not sure why.

I ended up doing 1 pump for filtration/spa jets and then one VS pump for the waterfall, deck jets, 2 bubblers, and spa spillover.
 
the Pop up valve is what the city requires for the street drainage termination. Just a ball valve that pushes up the top when water is flowing and falls when it stops. No more curb cuts.

sounds like you’re doing similar pump layout as me. I don’t have a ledge, but plan the pool pump to push spa overflow Along with spa pump. I figured if I’m running a return from the pool pump to the spa, I should just add it to 4 more lower jets.
 
I think I’ll be dropping the blower as the house is 15’ away, and I’m sure I can figure out a way to hide the air feed line. Just need to figure out what size it needs to be, or if it matters for 15’ and air. Probably install a check valve in the deck box just before it.
 
markmac said:
the Pop up valve is what the city requires for the street drainage termination. Just a ball valve that pushes up the top when water is flowing and falls when it stops. No more curb cuts.

sounds like you’re doing similar pump layout as me. I don’t have a ledge, but plan the pool pump to push spa overflow Along with spa pump. I figured if I’m running a return from the pool pump to the spa, I should just add it to 4 more lower jets.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok, yea I have a one too then. 4" drains out to the street. :)
 

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Plans should be back any day, and then permits.

I'm trying to finalize my equipment list for order, and would appreciate any insight or anything I'm overlooking. Have a few questions also. Pool is planned to be 15x27, 7x7 full perimeter overflow spa, one 3' descent. Pool 14k gallons and spa 400-500 gal.

2 x Intelliflo XF: (one dedicated to spa jets, bypassing heater and filter, on stand alone 3" line)
1 X Clean and Clear Plus 420
1 X Intellicenter w/IC40 and 2 IntelliValve (see question below)
1 X MasterTemp (300k BTU or 400k BTU see question below)
2 X IntelliBrite 5G LED Color (12v vs 120v)
3 X MicroBrite Color LED (see question below)
1 X Autofill
6 x spa jets (target 10 GPH models open to suggestions)

For IntelliCenter, there are various options and not sure which package to order. I believe for the automation I want, I'll need 5 or 6 intellivalves. Will also control lights, pump and heater. I read it can control landscaping lights also? I5PS? I8PS? I10PS? Tryign to understand more on what the limitations would be for my setup. Plan for future space?

For the Heater, any feedback on whether the 400k makes any sense for a 14,000 gallon pool with 400-500 gallon spa? The lowest seasonable temps here is 45F-50F, so on the rare occasion of heating the entire pool, it would be increasing 30F. According to Pentair's chart, it would take 12h-15h (400k vs 300k) for the pool and spa 20min-30min. If I was heating the pool, I don't see 12h vs 15h making a lot of difference as you're waiting half a day regardless. Savings is ~$400.

For the lights, I was originally planing 5 microbrite, but read here the lumens here and saw the microbrite are a fair drop from Intellibrite. I read the threads here, ad still undecided, but liek the idea of the microbrite simple install in the future for any replacements. I've still elt 3 in, one for under descent, one for stairs, and one in middle between two Intellibrites. If I'm having microbrites anyway, should I get the 5G intellibrites in 12V? Only isolated light I can see wanting to have separate is the spa, which woudl be a microbrite.

Poly Tec Pools seems like best pricing when considering the entire package. Any feedback?
 
Go with the 400K heater, even if just for your spa. Over the lifetime of the unit it will be better to have it than not.
I would ditch the auto fill and just do a manual line from one of your hose bibs. A lot of people complain about the auto fill breaking over time or hiding leaks.

Your spa should be 500 gallons.
The 420 may be borderline, may need to verify what the variance is if you go slightly over.

I think I have a 460 Jandy , mine is 14 x 28 and a 7' spa as well.
 
great info all... have you done a rough estimate about what percentage you are saving doing a Owner build rather than a pool company?

im not new to pools, i had one built 4yrs ago but moved and wanting to build another.... but i know pool companys are real busy at this time, i am certainly not in a rush but with the time that i have available i was wanting to look into OB aswell. Houston area aswell
 
I’m still finalizing the plans, and getting quotes. I can already say that it’s true, you won’t save as much as you think, because you start spending it on upgrades or in areas to get a better build. From what the pool builders were quoting me, I believe I could probably save +25% if I did like for like.

I’m upgrading from their plan with better plumbing, lighting, plaster, tiles, and decking. after all that, I’m hoping to still be 15% cheaper.

all that said, I’m still planning and have not begun the real work yet.

one surprise already has been how many subs don’t respond, and how many suppliers won’t even work with owners, and say I need to call a PB to place orders. Mostly in tiles, equipment, and other materials.
 
Thank you for your experience so far Markmac,,, im glad we have a few Houston area members on here to help each other out.... I need to go thru my contacts as i did collect a few phone numbers from some of the workers when they build my previous build., maybe it can help yall with quotes aswell
 
markmac said:
I’m still finalizing the plans, and getting quotes. I can already say that it’s true, you won’t save as much as you think, because you start spending it on upgrades or in areas to get a better build. From what the pool builders were quoting me, I believe I could probably save +25% if I did like for like.

I’m upgrading from their plan with better plumbing, lighting, plaster, tiles, and decking. after all that, I’m hoping to still be 15% cheaper.

all that said, I’m still planning and have not begun the real work yet.

one surprise already has been how many subs don’t respond, and how many suppliers won’t even work with owners, and say I need to call a PB to place orders. Mostly in tiles, equipment, and other materials.
Click to expand...

That is one reason I didn't bother with OB. I've had the luxury of being WFH and have seen my pool take shape from start to end. A lot of these subs are loyal to the PB due to the relationships.
The tile guy, plaster, decking guys all have been working with my PB for 10+ years. The electrician had 11 pools to finish this week, but he was a bit more flexible. I think it also has to do with them knowing the PB will pay them where a OB is unknown territory.
 
agjr85 said:
That is one reason I didn't bother with OB. I've had the luxury of being WFH and have seen my pool take shape from start to end. A lot of these subs are loyal to the PB due to the relationships.
The tile guy, plaster, decking guys all have been working with my PB for 10+ years. The electrician had 11 pools to finish this week, but he was a bit more flexible. I think it also has to do with them knowing the PB will pay them where a OB is unknown territory.
Click to expand...

This is what I found as well in the Houston area. Just know all the really good subs aren't going to be available. The PB have them as much work as they can handle for the foreseeable future. If you find one they likely aren't going to be as good and are going to charge you more. The supply places definitely are going to be charging you more. That said if you know what you are doing you will likely save some money but it's going to take a lot of time and patience. Expect a much longer build timeline.
 

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