The concrete pad that my 1.5 HP Hayward pool pump and 0.5 HP Hayward water feature pump (both single speed) sit on has been disintegrating for quite some time. The water feature pump now has a slight leak, the pool pump is very close to end of life, and the sand in my sand filter needs to be replaced. I run the water feature pump 24/7 to keep the pack rats and rabbits from building homes. I run the pool pump 12 hours a day but my Jandy SWG cell gets really clogged with calcium buildup, and I'm thinking I could run it maybe 18 hours a day at low speeds to keep water moving in the SWG cell and run it 6 hours at high speed for in floor pool cleaning. Since I have to move the pumps anyway to replace the concrete pad, I thought it would be a good time to replace the pumps. After reading a lot of TFP threads, seems like a VSP pump for the pool and maybe a 2-speed pump for the water feature makes sense, although the VSP pumps seem to have simpler wiring requirements. Any thoughts?
Time for a VSP?
- Thread starter hillyjd
- Start date
If your electric rates are high, the change over will really lower your bills significantly. If your rates aren't high, you might not reap a payback at all. A two speed might be a better choice then. Check with your power company as many offer rebates to switch over to VS. In fact, in the coming years all pools will come need to come with VS pumps I heard....
Why do you think your sand needs changing? It has lasted for a bazillion years already that there isn't but one reason to change it- if you've gone from Bacquacil to chlorine and the sand is gunked up with the Bacqua-goo. A good deep cleaning of the sand is always a good idea though!
Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
Are you keeping your pH down at the lower end of normal (like 7.2 to 7.4) which helps high calcium locations avoid problems like scale build up.
Maddie
Why do you think your sand needs changing? It has lasted for a bazillion years already that there isn't but one reason to change it- if you've gone from Bacquacil to chlorine and the sand is gunked up with the Bacqua-goo. A good deep cleaning of the sand is always a good idea though!
Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
Are you keeping your pH down at the lower end of normal (like 7.2 to 7.4) which helps high calcium locations avoid problems like scale build up.
Maddie
Maddie,
Electric rates in Tucson are probably average, so they're not a huge factor in my mind. We have solar as well, so my bill is pretty low, but I'd guess the pool pumps (I have 3 total) probably account for 30% of my electric bill. My big concern is trying to reduce the calcium in my SWG cell by keeping water flowing through it all the time, and keeping the critters out of my water feature (they seem to really love the hiding places in the rocks).
As for the sand, I read somewhere on the internet last year that it was a good idea to replace the sand every 5 years. And you know the internet is the keeper of all truth
The sand filter is working well, but I have to move it anyway to get to the concrete pad that needs replacing. Not sure I can move the filter with the sand in it.
I have not kept the pH that low. Using a gallon of muratic acid a week, it stays around 7.8-8.0. You're saying I should keep it quite a bit lower. Interesting. I had never heard that before.
Electric rates in Tucson are probably average, so they're not a huge factor in my mind. We have solar as well, so my bill is pretty low, but I'd guess the pool pumps (I have 3 total) probably account for 30% of my electric bill. My big concern is trying to reduce the calcium in my SWG cell by keeping water flowing through it all the time, and keeping the critters out of my water feature (they seem to really love the hiding places in the rocks).
As for the sand, I read somewhere on the internet last year that it was a good idea to replace the sand every 5 years. And you know the internet is the keeper of all truth
The sand filter is working well, but I have to move it anyway to get to the concrete pad that needs replacing. Not sure I can move the filter with the sand in it. I have not kept the pH that low. Using a gallon of muratic acid a week, it stays around 7.8-8.0. You're saying I should keep it quite a bit lower. Interesting. I had never heard that before.
- May 3, 2014
- 62,729
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Your SWCG should not scale up. If you maintain your CSI at or just below 0.0 you should not have any issues with scale. It does take management of pH, TA, and CH. You can control pH and TA, so you manage those based on what your current CH is. As we know, our CH increases over time due to our fill water and evaporation.
Use PoolMath to determine CSI and determine adjustments to manage it.
Take care.
Use PoolMath to determine CSI and determine adjustments to manage it.
Take care.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,828
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Hilly,
My comments are probably going to go counter to many of the claims you'll hear about VS pumps. I don't believe the calculations will show your VS pump efficiency savings will ever pay for the added cost of the pump. Your savings come from running at a slower speed not from any significant savings due to a more efficient pump/motor combination. If you want the convenience to be able to select any speed instead of half speed then go for a VSP. If you just want the most cost effective solution use a 2-speed pump.
If you let me know the model of pumps you are considering I'll get the performance curves to confirm this via calculation.
I hope this is helpful.
Chris
My comments are probably going to go counter to many of the claims you'll hear about VS pumps. I don't believe the calculations will show your VS pump efficiency savings will ever pay for the added cost of the pump. Your savings come from running at a slower speed not from any significant savings due to a more efficient pump/motor combination. If you want the convenience to be able to select any speed instead of half speed then go for a VSP. If you just want the most cost effective solution use a 2-speed pump.
If you let me know the model of pumps you are considering I'll get the performance curves to confirm this via calculation.
I hope this is helpful.
Chris
Thanks for all your comments. Looks like the consensus is a two speed. The one I'm thinking about is the Century A.O. Smith B2983T (Century A.O. Smith B2983T Premium Efficiency Square Flange 1-1/2 / 0.19 HP 2-Speed Pool and Spa Motor, 230V) or something similar. I like the idea of the integrated timer; it appears to me that I need a separate timer - my Jandy controller does not give me the option to select pump speed. It looks like they make several models at different HP. I could get a smaller one for the water feature and a larger one for the pool.
As for the SWCG scaling, I never had the problem with the older style Jandy Aquapure cell, but when I replaced it with the newer one, the calcium scaling increased dramatically. Very odd. I will pay closer attention to my CSI and see if that makes a difference.
As for the SWCG scaling, I never had the problem with the older style Jandy Aquapure cell, but when I replaced it with the newer one, the calcium scaling increased dramatically. Very odd. I will pay closer attention to my CSI and see if that makes a difference.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,828
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
What type of Jandy controller do you have? My rs system has a special relay for 2 speed pumps.
Chris
It's an 13 year old Jandy Aqualink RS. I don't see anything in the manual about being able to select pump speeds.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,828
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Hilly,
I believe all rs control systems have the ability to use a 2-speed relay. Click here for a link to Amazon or Google the part number to see if there's a better deal for you. Installation requires you change a dip switch setting on the board and that you connect the hi/lo selector to aux 2. What model of rs system do you have? You may want to verify with Jandy before you purchase this or at least download the most recent manual for your model number and verify. A wiring diagram is shown below.
I hope this helps.
Chris
I believe all rs control systems have the ability to use a 2-speed relay. Click here for a link to Amazon or Google the part number to see if there's a better deal for you. Installation requires you change a dip switch setting on the board and that you connect the hi/lo selector to aux 2. What model of rs system do you have? You may want to verify with Jandy before you purchase this or at least download the most recent manual for your model number and verify. A wiring diagram is shown below.
I hope this helps.
Chris
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I stand corrected. There's no mention of pump speed selection in the operator's manual, but in the installation manual there's a description of DIP switch settings and a 2-speed relay, so I guess it's possible. Looks like it only works with the AUX 2 button, which I'm already using for the spa control, so it would mean some extra rewiring. Plus, since I'm thinking about getting two 2-speed pumps (one for the pool and one for the water feature), I think I'm still stuck with needing at least one external timer.
Thanks Chris - the more I think about it, it may make sense to me to do this, even if I get two 2-speed pumps. I think the water feature pump would be on a semi-permanent schedule (low speed most of the time). It's only the pool pump that I would want more control over, since I'd want it to use the high speed setting when I hit the spa.
Chris - Can't find the Aqualink model number anywhere. The manual has a picture of an "RS8" control panel, but that panel has 7 AUX buttons and my panel only has 5.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,828
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Hilly,
The model number is probably on the back of your controller board or maybe on a paper label that has worn off. Could be an rs 6 also. Either way you can put the two speed relay in and just move the relays around.
Incidentally you can also very easily add iAqualink for wifi control and it lets you easily rename the buttons. I have my spa booster pump on Aux 4 and I renamed it to "Spa Bubbles" so anybody using the pool can figure it out. My wife and I both have the app on our phones and that's the only way we control the pool. It makes everything extremely easy and convenient.
You do need to make sure you have enough different relay channels and make sure you have enough room for the relays for two pumps. There are many different ways to do the relays and breakers but you have to have enough relay control circuits on your control board. Can you send a photo? Also you need to qualified to be working with single phase 240 v to do this work. Or you can get a qualified electrician to do that part.
I hope this helps.
Chris
Hilly here is a link that explains the capabilities of the different models. Click the link then click to "Brochures and Manuals", then select "Aqualink Automation and Selection Guide". Jandy's marketing around the model names is confusing and frustrating. I hope this helps you figure out what you can do with your system. This is a very simple one-page document that they make very difficult to find but it should be on the first page of their website.
The model number is probably on the back of your controller board or maybe on a paper label that has worn off. Could be an rs 6 also. Either way you can put the two speed relay in and just move the relays around.
Incidentally you can also very easily add iAqualink for wifi control and it lets you easily rename the buttons. I have my spa booster pump on Aux 4 and I renamed it to "Spa Bubbles" so anybody using the pool can figure it out. My wife and I both have the app on our phones and that's the only way we control the pool. It makes everything extremely easy and convenient.
You do need to make sure you have enough different relay channels and make sure you have enough room for the relays for two pumps. There are many different ways to do the relays and breakers but you have to have enough relay control circuits on your control board. Can you send a photo? Also you need to qualified to be working with single phase 240 v to do this work. Or you can get a qualified electrician to do that part.
I hope this helps.
Chris
Hilly here is a link that explains the capabilities of the different models. Click the link then click to "Brochures and Manuals", then select "Aqualink Automation and Selection Guide". Jandy's marketing around the model names is confusing and frustrating. I hope this helps you figure out what you can do with your system. This is a very simple one-page document that they make very difficult to find but it should be on the first page of their website.
Chris,
Almost positive I've got a PS-6. Here's a picture of the wiring in the power center. Aux 1 controls the water feature. Aux 2 is the fiber optic lights. Aux 3 is the solar pump. Aux 4 and Aux 5 are not used. So I could move the lights to Aux 4 and connect the relay to Aux 2. I've got access to some pretty experienced electricians if I can't figure it out myself. Thanks for all your help. I'm learning new stuff every day.
Hilly
Almost positive I've got a PS-6. Here's a picture of the wiring in the power center. Aux 1 controls the water feature. Aux 2 is the fiber optic lights. Aux 3 is the solar pump. Aux 4 and Aux 5 are not used. So I could move the lights to Aux 4 and connect the relay to Aux 2. I've got access to some pretty experienced electricians if I can't figure it out myself. Thanks for all your help. I'm learning new stuff every day.
Hilly
Attachments
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,828
- Pool Size
- 28000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Hilly,
Looks like you definitely have enough relay circuits and enough space for the 2 speed relay. And I'd do it just the way you describe.
Also, not to be critical but it looks like there's been some high quality wiring and some not-so-high-quality work. You may want to have your electrician friends help you fix it up so it's all first class, safe, and reliable.
I hope this helps.
Chris
Looks like you definitely have enough relay circuits and enough space for the 2 speed relay. And I'd do it just the way you describe.
Also, not to be critical but it looks like there's been some high quality wiring and some not-so-high-quality work. You may want to have your electrician friends help you fix it up so it's all first class, safe, and reliable.
I hope this helps.
Chris