Transitioning to Liquid Chlorine

[troc]

How are you going to test to know if you're losing 4ppm per day that week or 2 ?

Once algae sets in, it'll easily consume whatever you add while getting worse every day.

Or you add too much and the FC is sky high when you return.

The SWG is the greatest thing ever, but every couple of weeks the seasonal demand changes and it needs to be adjusted. I'd go SWG then hire a friend for a weekly FaceTime call to go over how it tests and what he should do about it. Don't 'feel bad' for your friend. Think of what you'd pay a service and make it worth his while to want to come.

Central Texas summers are very predictable. It's 100 degrees and sunny from late June through early September, so the hope is that I can figure out what the chlorine demand is for that time of year (and the others when needed) to get reasonable close on average.

I've been assuming that if I error on the side of overdosing, even if I have sky high FC when I return, I can just wait for it to come down. Besides having to wait, are there other negatives with having a few weeks of very high FC?

 

[troc]

I am in the process of setting up a Stenner pump and tank to automate liquid chlorine injection. I want to do all I can to protect it from the elements, where those elements are dictated by my central Texas location. This means very intense summers (heat, sun, UV), mild winters, but still subject to dropping below freezing. And then there are things like wind and the local wildlife to consider (rats, possum, raccoons, skunks, etc.)

I am not looking to over-engineer a solution, nor spend significant sums, but wondering what others do to guard against these things. I have rough ideas about insulation, sun shields, PVC frames and tarps, etc. This concern also extends to the tubing runs of the Stenner pump.

My main pool pump motor has a freeze detector, so the pump starts to circulate water automatically if the temperature nears freezing. That's not quite an options for injecting chlorine, but maybe I could re-route the suction line to a water source and manually turn the pump on when the forecast predicts freezing. That's naturally a PITA, so any and all ideas and experiences for how people deal with this would be welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

[Newdude]

Besides having to wait, are there other negatives with having a few weeks of very high FC?

Bleaching the pool finish. We know and it's been proven many many times that a FC of 60% of your CYA (mustard algae slam) is safe for 24 hours. After or above that, YMMV.

 

[dereksanders]

That is likely closer to the only answer, but with this general idea that if I can reliably automating injecting a little chlorine over that time, what I would have too deal with on return would not be that terrible.

At this point, treat it like a full closing by dosing Cl up to SLAM and cover. Whatever you come back to is what you come back to.

 

[Bill1974]

I am one season into salt water. The things I have noticed:

• There is a slight salty taste to the water (no where near ocean water). Unless you're told it's barely perceptible.
• Doesn't bother my eyes, but the chlorine didn't either
• Cost is more upfront but going to be lower over the long run.
• No lugging cases of chlorine. This is the biggest pro for going salt. In the middle of the summer the pool uses about a half gallon a 12% chlorine a day and about 75 gallons over the season.
• No ruined clothing from splashed chlorine.
• Less risk of the pool not being chlorinated enough. Chlorine degrades in heat, I have a 20 gallon tank that my steinner pulls from. The last 1/3 to 1/4 of the tank the chlorine level in the pool would be low because the chlorine in the tank had degraded.
• Lower electric use since I changed to a variable speed pump to along with going SWG. This would be the same with liquid chlorine. SWG forced me to go VSP, or run the single speed pump a lot more. Again its an upfront cost but savings over time.
• Pool is cleaner, pump runs more often and the chlorine level is more consistent. so less time maintaining the pool and more time doing enjoyable things.
• Have to occasionally add salt, but it's usually readily available and cheap. But is 40 lbs a bag. I did have to add a few hundred lbs when i converted but it's only when the pool is filled.
• Backwashing doesn't harm the lawn any more or less, it still has chlorine and that does most of the harm. The salt is washed/dispersed with rain and irrigation. I try to backwash when the chlorine level is on the low side.

 

[PoolStored]

I am in the process of setting up a Stenner pump and tank to automate liquid chlorine injection.

Chlorine in the heat will degrade faster than you think. The best you can do is to dig out a hole, secure the walls against cave-in, and bury the tank. In the ground and out of the direct sun will keep the LC several degrees cooler. There have been threads about this in the past and user have gone as far as insulating the tank and enclosure to keep the temperature of the LC more even. There are several threads around where people buried the tank.

You want to ensure that the pump is somehow wired so that the stenner cannot run if the pump doesn't have power. You don't want to inject without the pump running.

Breakdown of Bleach Over Time by Storage Temp - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[troc]

Chlorine in the heat will degrade faster than you think. The best you can do is to dig out a hole, secure the walls against cave-in, and bury the tank. In the ground and out of the direct sun will keep the LC several degrees cooler. There have been threads about this in the past and user have gone as far as insulating the tank and enclosure to keep the temperature of the LC more even. There are several threads around where people buried the tank.

You want to ensure that the pump is somehow wired so that the stenner cannot run if the pump doesn't have power. You don't want to inject without the pump running.

Breakdown of Bleach Over Time by Storage Temp - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

That's good info to know. I do plan to plan to insulate and shade the tank from the sun, but burying is not likely an option I would go with. I do have it wired with a relay so that the pool pump/motor controlling that and another relay controlled by a float switch in case the tank gets empty. (Stenner says it is OK to run empty, but not sure for how long, so maybe the float switch relay is overkill.)

 

[troc]

I am one season into salt water. The things I have noticed:

• There is a slight salty taste to the water (no where near ocean water). Unless you're told it's barely perceptible.
• Doesn't bother my eyes, but the chlorine didn't either
• Cost is more upfront but going to be lower over the long run.
• No lugging cases of chlorine. This is the biggest pro for going salt. In the middle of the summer the pool uses about a half gallon a 12% chlorine a day and about 75 gallons over the season.
• No ruined clothing from splashed chlorine.
• Less risk of the pool not being chlorinated enough. Chlorine degrades in heat, I have a 20 gallon tank that my steinner pulls from. The last 1/3 to 1/4 of the tank the chlorine level in the pool would be low because the chlorine in the tank had degraded.
• Lower electric use since I changed to a variable speed pump to along with going SWG. This would be the same with liquid chlorine. SWG forced me to go VSP, or run the single speed pump a lot more. Again its an upfront cost but savings over time.
• Pool is cleaner, pump runs more often and the chlorine level is more consistent. so less time maintaining the pool and more time doing enjoyable things.
• Have to occasionally add salt, but it's usually readily available and cheap. But is 40 lbs a bag. I did have to add a few hundred lbs when i converted but it's only when the pool is filled.
• Backwashing doesn't harm the lawn any more or less, it still has chlorine and that does most of the harm. The salt is washed/dispersed with rain and irrigation. I try to backwash when the chlorine level is on the low side.

Thanks for your SWG perspective. Definitely something I am thinking about, but I'll go the Stenner/LC route and see how that goes for me since I've already made some investment in it. Maybe next year my perspective will be different.

 

[reggiehammond]

You ought to sell off the Stenner setup before you put any use to it. You can likely get most of the $$ back.

I would fill in my pool and burn down my house before I would ever consider giving up the SWCG. It makes pool ownership far easier than any other solution, and allows for TFP principles to be effected in the easiest possible way.

You really should reconsider now.

Regarding what to do when you're gone for three months? What we do - and what I've found to work - is to hire a pool company for just the time I'm gone. I pay a slightly higher rate than an annual contract, but there really is no way to support a pool in Texas completely hands off. The technician keeps the pool clean, keeps an eye on water level, and only has a limited time to screw up my CH and CYA levels.

 

[wireform]

You worry about the chlorine side but there's no guarantee that the pump won't die over this time period so having someone look after even to just check and a minor service is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Bill1974]

In the long run the cost is less with SWG. When 12% LC was $2-$3 a gallon it was a break even to maybe slightly cheaper. Last I saw 12% LC was about $6/gal. With your 18K gal pool the the break even would change depending on what SWG you go with. With the largest out there it would take longer but save the most in the long run before the cell needs replacing. A lower output SWG would break even sooner, but not be as much of a saving in the long run as the largest systems out there.

Other than the upfront costs it really has no downsides. There is a little bit of learning curve on what to set it at and how long to run it, but it's the same learning curve as figuring out LC.

One thing with LC that could be a little challenging to figure out is how to control your stenner to dispense the appropriate amount or LC and also make sure it does not run when the pump is not running. A SWG has a flow switch that prevents it from generating chlorine is there is not enough flow. Depending on what you have controlling everything it might be easy. Also figure out you will need to change the amount of chlorine dispensed a bit throughout the season.

I'm frugal, so when I was using LC I cobbled together an timer setup of Wifi switches and contactors to control when the pump and stenner would run and set up rules that if the pump was not running the stenner would not run. This was much cheaper than any pool automation equipment. To adjust dispensing amounts I would just change how long the stenner would run in an app.

With a VSP and SWG I again when frugal and made another DIY pool automation setup with some smart devices and contactors and some fancy illuminated switches for local override control.

 

[troc]

You worry about the chlorine side but there's no guarantee that the pump won't die over this time period so having someone look after even to just check and a minor service is worth its weight in gold.

That can work most, but not all the time. In early December, when the leaves fall, the skimmer basket needs to be emptied out multiple times a day, else the pump motor will burn out. Not sure there is any pool company out that offers that kind of service and if they did, I probably cannot afford it.

 

[Newdude]

In early December, when the leaves fall, the skimmer basket needs to be emptied out multiple times a day, else the pump motor will burn out.

There's another way.

Skimmer Guards - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolStored]

(Stenner says it is OK to run empty, but not sure for how long, so maybe the float switch relay is overkill.)

Perfectly fine.

There's another way.

A solar cover also reduces the amount of leaves. Combination of solar cover and skimmer guards will drastically reduce the amount of leaves.

 

[troc]

There's another way.

Skimmer Guards - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Interesting. I made my own skimmer guard without knowing such a thing existed...and it looks very similar.

However, this is only a good options for a light debris load as this just means everything goes to the bottom. When the trees shed their leaves, that's a sizable amount and presents a bigger cleanup issue, not to mention the impact on the pool chemistry with all that debris sitting there.

A mesh cover that is anchored taut seems to be the best option for both the debris issue and reducing the chlorine demand.

 

[DanF]

Regarding what to do when you're gone for three months? What we do - and what I've found to work - is to hire a pool company for just the time I'm gone. I pay a slightly higher rate than an annual contract, but there really is no way to support a pool in Texas completely hands off. The technician keeps the pool clean, keeps an eye on water level, and only has a limited time to screw up my CH and CYA levels.

You worry about the chlorine side but there's no guarantee that the pump won't die over this time period so having someone look after even to just check and a minor service is worth its weight in gold.

This is what I do also. I leave the AZ sun and heat for three months in the summer, but could not do it without the SWCG. I hire a pool service to empty my robotic floor cleaner, brush the walls, empty the skimmer basket (but I may try and build the skimmer guard above) and add muriatic acid. Because I run my SWCG to produce FC >10, I tell the pool service how much MA to add weekly, since their test kits won't be accurate.

I do clean my salt cell, but that's because of the high CH in our fill water here. But I keep my CSI pretty negative to minimize the cleaning - and when I do clean the cell I use vinegar, not MA, to lengthen the life of the cell.