How to trick Hayward TCELL15 that Salt Level is fine?

[mas985]

But when the OP replaced the cell, it started working again at proper levels:

New Working SWG:
-24.35V
-6.38A
77 degrees
3400 PPM
Cell Temp Sensor: 77 degrees
Water Sensor: 77 degrees

A constant low voltage/current should have showed up immediately after replacing the cell. The exact same thing has happened twice now. Working well for a short period of time and then fairly quickly degrading. A cell failing in a month or even a year for OEM seems like something has to be way off.

Once you can write it off to a poor production run but two cells in a row. Maybe if they are from the same lot.

@boxforpool, can you post a picture of both cell serial numbers?

 

[JamesW]

That is only one polarity.

Maybe you have a good and bad polarity?

Maybe pull the circuit board and see if there are any obvious signs of damage.

 

[JamesW]

Maybe the plug is beginning to corrode and cause problems?

The plug is downstream from the voltage sensor, so the voltage might be ok before the plug and bad after the plug.

Can you show a picture of the plug receptacle on the circuit board?

 

[JamesW]

The cell is basically two sets of 6 plates in parallel.

There are 13 plates and the center plate goes to each set.

You have 2 black and 2 white wires and maybe one black or one white wire is bad on the circuit board trace.

You have two white wires going to the cell center plate and one black wire going to each outer plate.

If one of the black outer wires is not working correctly, you can get low current since only half of the cell is getting voltage.


Holding the plug vertically with the cord going down and looking at the connection points. 1 is top left, 2 is top right, 3 is second down left and so on with 9 being lower left and 10 being lower right.[53]

1) Black - Power to cell
2) White - Power to cell
3) Black - Power to cell
4) White - Power to cell
5) Brown - Not used
6) Red - Goes to thermistor
7) Orange - Not used on older models, used for cell ID chip on new models.
8) Yellow - Not used on older models, used for cell ID chip on new models.
9) Green - Not used
10) Blue - Goes to thermistor.

 

[BoxfordPool]

I have a Pool Lab 1.0 Test Kit and tested water today. PH=7.53 (OK), TA=113(OK), CYA=86(High). Chlroine is currently High because I added Shock last night since turning off the SWG to prevent potential damage.

My Salt Water tester says 3500, consistent with where is was a month ago when I replaced the SWG. When I replaced the SWG it 3400 consistently until it recently started to drop. Prologic Panel Diagnstics show 24Volt, 5.2Amps, 82 degrees (accurate) and 2600PPM Salt (Off). Important Note: When the prior SWG Failed, it showed LOW Amps, and new Cell had 6.38Amps. New Cell now showing 5.2Amps, so dropping. What could cause this? Could High CYA be causing this problem?

 

[JamesW]

Prologic Panel Diagnstics show 24Volt, 5.2Amps, 82 degrees (accurate) and 2600PPM Salt (Off).

Do you have a Prologic or Aquarite Pro?

Can you check the diagnostics and reverse polarity?

 

[JamesW]

My Salt Water tester says 3500

What tester do you have?

Is it calibrated?

Does it read correctly for a standardized solution?

You need at least 3 independent salinity tests including a K-1766.

 

[JamesW]

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[BoxfordPool]

I have a AquaPlus 16V. Yes I have reversed polarity, no change.

Interesting Update. I emailed Hayward, and they asked me to take the Cell to any Leslies Pool to be tested. Apparently Hayward provides authorized dealers with a SWG Test machine. I brought it in, and they said it "Failed", the machine gives no other results, just pass or fail. They also tested water and matched all my reading nearly exactly, so water seems good. I shared results with Hayward, awaiting response.

 

[mas985]

Interesting Update. I emailed Hayward, and they asked me to take the Cell to any Leslies Pool to be tested. Apparently Hayward provides authorized dealers with a SWG Test machine. I brought it in, and they said it "Failed", the machine gives no other results, just pass or fail. They also tested water and matched all my reading nearly exactly, so water seems good. I shared results with Hayward, awaiting response.

Seems like Hayward may be having a QC issue.

Did you buy both cells from the same merchant?

Do you happen to have the two bad cells' serial numbers?

Just curious if they are close in manufacturing date.

 

[BoxfordPool]

Seems like Hayward may be having a QC issue.

Did you buy both cells from the same merchant?

Do you happen to have the two bad cells' serial numbers?

Just curious if they are close in manufacturing date.

I bought first Cell from authorized dealer, who then went out of business 6 months later. So I contacted hayward and they provided me with warranty cell. I don't have old cell serial number. Will be interesting to see how they respond.

 

[BoxfordPool]

I bought first Cell from authorized dealer, who then went out of business 6 months later. So I contacted hayward and they provided me with warranty cell. I don't have old cell serial number. Will be interesting to see how they respond.

Hayward agreed to send another warranty new Cell to me. No explanation for how or why this could have failed again.

I am thinking about replacing my Board, which seems like a potential root cause. Not sure if there is any way to test the board for any potential problems related to this, or even worth the effort. I am so tired of this problem and replacing the Cell for 3rd time now seems like just waiting for it to reoccur again. Thoughts?

 

[mas985]

The board simply supplies the cell with a DC voltage to operate. Even if there was a failure in the DC filtering or rectifiers, I would not expect the cell life to decrease to 30 days. That is really extreme. Plus the display readout for voltage appears to be within the normal range.

However, if you want to double check the voltage, use a volt meter on the red and black wires from the rectifiers when the cell is energized. Measure both DC & AC. DC should be close to that of the display and AC should be less than a volt. There are some other diagnostics that you can run in the attached file but those are mostly for the other functions of the board.

 

[BoxfordPool]

The board simply supplies the cell with a DC voltage to operate. Even if there was a failure in the DC filtering or rectifiers, I would not expect the cell life to decrease to 30 days. That is really extreme. Plus the display readout for voltage appears to be within the normal range.

However, if you want to double check the voltage, use a volt meter on the red and black wires from the rectifiers when the cell is energized. Measure both DC & AC. DC should be close to that of the display and AC should be less than a volt. There are some other diagnostics that you can run in the attached file but those are mostly for the other functions of the board.

Thanks, could you please post the file to test the board, I don't see that. If it happened once I would think a bad Cell, but this is the 2nd time in a row a brand new cell failed in very short order. I want to avoid a 3rd time.

 

[mas985]

Sorry, I thought it uploaded.

 

[Lclark589]

Going out on a limb here but have you added salt to your pool while the swg was running? This could damage the cell if it was turned on when salt was added. Also I see you have a plaster pool, what is your Calcium level?

 

[BoxfordPool]

So this is really crazy. I am posting an update in case anyone has a similiar experience. I have now had 3 brand new Hayward 940 Extended Life salt generators all fail in the exact same way after only 5-6 weeks of runtime. Hayward has sent me a warranty replacement each time, and now a 4th is on the way. Prior to installing the 3rd unit, I even replaced my main system board with a brand new unit running 4.47 firmware and replaced the transformer, so can't blame the controller at this point. No explanation from Hayward, they just keep sending me new warranty replacements so far.

Here's what has happened:

1. My original Hayward Tcell-15 stopped generating chlorine after about 6 years.
2. I purchased a new Hayward 940 Extended Life model, thinking it would last longer.
3. It lasted about 5 weeks. Initially was fine, showed correct 3400ppm salt reading (tested and verified).
-After 4 weeks the salt reading started dropping rapidly, about 100-200 reading drop every 4-5 days, until "Low Salt Error"
-Hayward had me bring the unit to a Leslie's pool store to have it tested. Leslie's has a Hayward Salt Cell test machine. It failed.
-Hayward sent me a warranty replacement.
4. I installed the warranty unit and, once again all was fine, reading 3400ppm salt. After 4-5 weeks the same lower salt readings began again until "low salt error" came on again.
-Again Hayward has me get it tested at Leslie's, it failed again, they sent me another warranty replacement.
5. This time, before installing the 3rd TCell, I also replaced the main board and transformer on my AqualPlus 16V system.
-Can you believe it, once again, after 4-5 weeks the same lower salt readings began again until "low salt error" came on again.
-This is the 3rd brand new unit in a row also failing with the exact same error sequence, even after I replaced the main controller board and transformer.
-Again Hayward had me get it tested at Leslie's, it failed again, they sent me another warranty replacement, without explaining what could be going on.

Thoughts is what could be wrong?
-Maybe 940 Extended Life model has a compatibility issue with AquaPlus 16V?
-Maybe 940 Extended Life model has a known manufacturing defect?
-Should I go back to the TCell-15 model?

I am really concerned with installing the 4th try and having the same experience, especially since I live in Northeast and close to closing my pool for the winter, so I may not know if this one works until next spring.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[mas985]

-Maybe 940 Extended Life model has a compatibility issue with AquaPlus 16V?

All Hayward SWG boards basically use the same power supply design so from the SWG cell perspective, there should be no difference in applied voltage.

However, if you want to double check the voltage, use a volt meter on the red and black wires from the rectifiers when the cell is energized. Measure both DC & AC. DC should be close to that of the display and AC should be less than a volt. There are some other diagnostics that you can run in the attached file but those are mostly for the other functions of the board.

Did you ever do the above test? You have not changed the rectifiers or transformer correct? If there was a problem in these, I would have expected other symptoms such as voltage/current alarms so I don't think this is an issue but may be worth a simple measurement.

-Maybe 940 Extended Life model has a known manufacturing defect?

This would be my best guess and probably the reason why Hayward is so willing to keep replacing these cells. It may be a known defect to them but not widely publicized.

-Should I go back to the TCell-15 model?

As long as Hayward is willing to give a new cell, I would keep trying. If you go with another cell type, you will need to buy it yourself correct?


However, for the next one you need to buy, I would pass on the 940 because it seems to cost 25% more for only 25% more life. Why bother.

 

[BoxfordPool]

I have not, instead I replaced the Transformer. I guess I could test the rectifiers.

 

[BoxfordPool]

Got new cell (4th time) today, will try, try, try again - as long as Hayward keeps sending another new one for free. Oddly they never answer my questions about what could be causing this.