10 Day Old IC-40 Just Went Dark

[Brushman]

I guess the only thing I've got left except a bad cell or cell cable is that maybe the female cable plug at the bottom of the IntellipH where the IC cable arrives could be defective? It doesn't feel like it screws in incredibly tight, but that as the failure point would be inconsistent with the fact that it worked perfectly for the first 10 days with the new IC-40, and likewise the recently replaced IC-20 never suffered any power loss at any time. The flow switch just failed on that and it was old enough that it seemed like prudent PM to just replace it. Going to check the inside portion of the pin connector that was an original focus as Lake Placid suggests, but even if I find something there, since I've got what I think is good voltage downstream from that point I don't think even a hidden, budding problem there could be the cause of the current IC is totally dead failure.

Having thought through it one more time, my theory that *maybe* female cable plug at the bottom of the IntellipH is the culprit actually doesn't hold together because, when I take the IC-40 cable directly to the EasyTouch, I get the exact same outcome, a dead cell with no lights, and we also know the Easy Touch cable connect is working fine because the voltage at the IntellipH output is good.

 

[Brushman]

The IC20 should be plenty capable of generating for your pool, but you theoretically paid for a 40….why accept a lesser replacement? Me I’d push for direct replacement for the 40 assuming it’s truly pentair you’re dealing with.

Only reason to seek the lesser replacement would be because of the burnt connector issue documented above. That seems to be associated only with IC's above the 20. But at the end of the day I think trying to do that would just complicate the exchange so that idea probably gets kicked to the curb.

 

[JamesW]

What is the date on the back of the cell?

 

[Lake Placid]

Only reason to seek the lesser replacement would be because of the burnt connector issue documented above. That seems to be associated only with IC's above the 20. But at the end of the day I think trying to do that would just complicate the exchange so that idea probably gets kicked to the curb.

Food for thought....Since you are getting and iC40 and the age of your intelliph is way out of warranty, you could preemptively install the fix and ensure you don't develop any burned connector issues in the future.

 

[Brushman]

What is the date on the back of the cell?

It's a newbie, build date 10/05/2023.

 

[Brushman]

Food for thought....Since you are getting and iC40 and the age of your intelliph is way out of warranty, you could preemptively install the fix and ensure you don't develop any burned connector issues in the future.

I thought about that too, but I think the downside risk probably means I should stay put. It would be totally like me to damage a working board trying to make it work better.

 

[Brushman]

Happy to share that Pentair has approved replacement of the failed IC-40. Contacted them directly via their main tech support number (1-800-831-7133) this morning, answered a series of scripted questions (all designed to find out whether the cell was getting power) and this afternoon received an email back saying, "Please be advised that I've created an order to send out replacement 520555 IntelliChlor IC40 Cell."

 

[JamesW]

answered a series of scripted questions (all designed to find out whether the cell was getting power)

It was good that you already had all of the necessary answers.

 

[Lake Placid]

I thought about that too, but I think the downside risk probably means I should stay put. It would be totally like me to damage a working board trying to make it work better.

Only you know your skill sets best and can decide your risk threshold. If you don’t decide to employ the fix, be diligent about checking the connections for signs of burning/overheating. If you can solder at all, the fix is actually quite simple with minimal risk to the board. If you look in my thread where I soldered the two blue wires to the back of the connector that would be the “riskiest” part and it’s not really risky at all. The rest can actually be accomplished with crimp/spade connectors or even weather tight wire nuts and pigtails. But again you know your skill sets best and you make the best call for your situation. Glad to see Pentair took care of you on the failed unit.

 

[Dirk]

but once I saw "The Pentair Store" banner I mistakenly assumed they had changed their chain of sale strategy.

I ranted about this in some other thread, because I fell for this, too. Amazon allows just anyone to name their store just anything. Very deceptive (intentionally so, IMO).

It doesn't hurt to troubleshoot the IntellipH, but you've already eliminated that (at least in terms of it being the only problem). When the IntellipH lights up, but the IntelliChlor does not when bypassing the IntellipH, it's a bad cell.

Your voltage checking just confirms that. Return the cell for a new one. If you're outside of the return window, then Pentair may or may not honor a warranty (they really don't have to).

Edit: sorry, looks like you've got this resolved, I must have missed the last couple posts before I wrote mine. Glad to hear it worked out. If your IntellipH is out of warranty, you should consider the "proactive" wiring hack now, before it burns up.

 

[Brushman]

It was good that you already had all of the necessary answers.

It was more than good James, it was crucial. And I would not have had all those answers without the exceptional help I got here at TFP. I'd been a Bronze Supporter for years but yesterday I added Gold Supporter to say thanks guys -- I'm genuinely grateful for all the advice. Plus it was a blast to learn a thing or two (more like three or four) along the way.

 

[Brushman]

Here's a surprise bonus. I asked for return instructions and Pentair responded with, "You don't need to send back the failed salt cell. Kind regards." Can't be sure what's wrong with the cell but it's likely that, at minimum, I've got a "free" backup flow switch in my inventory.

 

[Dirk]

Here's a surprise bonus. I asked for return instructions and Pentair responded with, "You don't need to send back the failed salt cell. Kind regards." Can't be sure what's wrong with the cell but it's likely that, at minimum, I've got a "free" backup flow switch in my inventory.

That's exactly what they did when I needed a warranty IC. And I just used that backup flow switch to fix my current IC!

 

[Brushman]

Here's another surprise but this time it's no bonus. Just installed the brand new warranty IC-40 that arrived yesterday. Turned everything off, dropped power at the circuit breaker, did the easy plumbing and plug in, circuit breakers back on and automation set back to run mode. The IntellipH green light came on initially, as expected, but by the time I took the two steps to see the new cell, it was dark and the red light came back ON at the IntellipH.

In the earlier troubleshooting, the IntellipH board looked fine on visual inspection (pictures above). Even more importantly, I think, the measured output voltage from the IntellipH (pictures above) also looked good.

Thoughts, ideas, margaritas -- all are welcomed.

 

[Brushman]

@Lake Placid @JamesW @ajw22 @Dirk I guess the next thing to do is take this new IC-40's power cord directly to the power out on the IntelliTouch automation, to see if it stays dead or comes to life.

 

[Brushman]

@Lake Placid @JamesW @ajw22 @Dirk I guess the next thing to do is take this new IC-40's power cord directly to the power out on the IntelliTouch automation, to see if it stays dead or comes to life.

Yes, that brings the new IC-40 to life. That's interesting. When that original IC-40 that ran for about 10 days before dying went dark, taking the power cord on that to the IntelliTouch did nothing, it stayed dead. So this is different.

I don't know much of anything, as you guys know, but just thinking about what's going on here, all I can come up with that fits my facts so far is that:

(a) some kind of issue in the now-bypassed IntellipH seems likely to be related to my prior, near new IC-40 failure.
(b) that issue in the IntellipH might have ultimately fried the near-new IC-40.

As for (a), are there possibilities other than the IntellipH as a possible cause, or if this new new IC-40 keeps running as expected when wired directly to the automation, does it really have to be the IntellipH?

As for (b), are there any reports of the IntellipH board failure (the issue originally documented by Dirk and also repaired and documented by Lake Placid) actually damaging IC chlorine generators? My recollection is that owners were reporting that cells went dark, but came back to life when the IntelliPH connectors got the fix. Does that fault seem likely to be actually capable of killing an IC cell and/or are there reports of that happening?

My biggest confusion about all of this is that I measured the IntellipH output voltage carefully. We have good reason to believe it was in range and stable during trouble shooting. I guess one thing that occurs to me on the fly is that maybe I need to try to test that IntellipH output voltage again, when the automation all goes from Off to On. Maybe there's some kind of weird spiking or inconsistency there?

Or maybe the female connector there at the IC-40 really is the culprit ... but if so, why didn't that first IC-40 come back to life when connected directly to the automation? That seems to rule out the IntelliPh connector issue right?

I'm all over the place I know. Helps me to think it through as I write these things down though since this is above my pool pay grade.

 

[Brushman]

Just to be thorough check in pins INSIDE the connector. Mine was caught early enough that the outside of the pins on the board appeared fine, but the pins were beginning to show signs of charring on the inside of the connector.

I think that may be exactly what's going on with mine. Pictures to follow shortly. What I am having trouble reconciling is the proper output voltage being measured on the IntellipH output -- wouldn't that render any subtle charring I find a problem that, from a delivered voltage perspective, actually hasn't happened yet?

New new IC-40 now has a half hour of run time connected to the IntelliTouch and all lights on the cell are green. I powered everything down and swapped just to triple check and nope, dead when connected to the IntellipH, working fine when connected to the IntelliTouch.

 

[Brushman]

Just to be thorough check in pins INSIDE the connector ...

Here's some new visual information -- this looks like the "interior only" charring @Lake Placid described. I assume this now becomes a reasonable culprit for my two IC failures?

The details I'm still struggling to square with these new images are (a) the seemingly good and carefully measured IntellipH output voltage during diagnostics just a few days ago, which are pictured above (glad to have those images or I'd doubt my information otherwise) and (b) the fact that my first new IC-40 went toes up even before I took, with @JamesW patient help, those voltage measurements.

 

[Lake Placid]

Here's some new visual information -- this looks like the "interior only" charring @Lake Placid described. I assume this now becomes a reasonable culprit for my two IC failures?

The details I'm still struggling to square with these new images are (a) the seemingly good and carefully measured IntellipH output voltage during diagnostics just a few days ago, which are pictured above (glad to have those images or I'd doubt my information otherwise) and (b) the fact that my first new IC-40 went toes up even before I took, with @JamesW patient help, those voltage measurements.

That’s exactly how mine began, although yours looks like more corrosion than charring. Usually the intelliph fails as a result of the connection issue. I would run your new SWG bypassing the intelliph for a couple of days. If it performs normally, then you know the issue is the IPh..Then Prepare to clean the connectors really well and employ the fix.

As far as voltage measurements….without a “load” you may have correct voltage. However when you need voltage across a terminal that can’t support the amperage needed or have resistance you would experience a voltage drop.

Ohms law…..voltage, amperage, and resistance all play a part.

What is Ohm’s Law?

Ohm’s Law is a formula used to calculate the relationship between voltage, current and resistance in an electrical circuit.

www.fluke.com

 

[Brushman]

Great help, thanks.