DIY Muriatic Acid Doser

Chrissu

Bronze Supporter
Nov 12, 2023
91
Tampa, FL
Pool Size
10000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Hello all,
I’m looking for suggestions on how to build a simple, timed MA feeder. Here are the parts I’m considering.

Container:
Pentair IntelliChem four gallon acid container. I like the wide mouth design with seal piercer for the MA bottle. Seems like a smart way to pour in a couple bottles of acid periodically.

Here is some feedback I found about this tank: Great tank for acid. Very safe way to add acid to tank by using a bottle that still is sealed and it gets punctured when upside down in tank. Like that can see level of acid because container is see through.


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Doser:
Stenner but not sure which to order. Model E20T4H pumps 1.92 oz/min which i think is fine. Any suggestions out there?IMG_3741.png
Does a stenner pump mount where the Pentair pump normally mounts to?
 
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Wiring and timer
The plan is to wire up the stenner pump off the pool timer power source. That way, the stenner doser can only pump MA when the pool pump is running.
 
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I cannot say enough good things about that tank. I have the Pentair IntellipH, which uses the same tank.

A Pentair pump is a Stenner. But I couldn't tell ya which model Stenner to buy. Only that you're on the right track.

My system uses the IntellipH controller for most of the year, but during the winter months it shuts itself down due to cold water. So for those months I switch over and run the acid pump using a relay controlled by, and inside, my pool automation controller. That relay can only fire when the main pump is running (according to the pool controller), but I also included a flow switch, which is what I am recommending. That is a second layer of protection that won't allow the acid pump to run unless both the pool controller says it's OK and there is actual flow in the plumbing. IMO, relying on the controller (or a timer) alone is not enough. It could call for the main pump to run, but that doesn't guarantee the pump is actually running (malfunctioning pump, bad cable, flow restriction, etc).

Here is my thread on how I wired everything, including a schematic. It won't apply directly to what you are doing, but it'll give you some ideas.

I would be dead-set against you using any sort of Wi-Fi switch for this. Controlling, and more importantly, restricting how that acid pump runs is not just mission critical, but a real potential hazard should it pump into a non-flowing pipe or worse, pump uncontrollably until the tank is empty. Wi-Fi and Wi-Fi switches are not reliable enough for the task.


Let me know if you want any help figuring out what I did.
 
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PS. Did you order the tank already? They sell that tank with the pump. I'm not necessarily recommending this vendor, I just grabbed the first google hit, but you could shop around for this. It's only about 80 bucks more. Some offers for this setup include the injector, and tubing, the plumbing pipe tap, the whole works:

 
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Here's one for $440 that includes everything you need (except the timer):


I have ordered a few things from SunPlay without issue. I would again.
 
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Thanks for chiming in and sharing your experience setup this up. I read through the post that you shared on your build and you clearly have experience integrating relays and such. I don’t have much experience building anything that uses a relay so I may ask beginner like questions.

Please tell more about venting the tank.
 
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Pentair Tank
Bought a new Pentair Acid Tank for $103 with shipping from a seller on eBay. 🎉

IMG_3747.jpeg


Stenner Pump
110v Econ T pump. What Gallon per day model should I order? The GPD is a big question mark. IMG_3744.jpeg

Flow sensor:
I have a CircuPool Rj60 swcg and it came with a flow sensor. CircuPool also ended up sending another. As of now I have 1 flow meter hooked up and the new one is sitting on my workbench. I can use the original flow senser for the swcg and the old one for the Stenner. Or, perhaps one flow sensor can be used to detect flow for both the swcg and the stenner?
 

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Stenner Pump
110v Econ T pump. What Gallon per day model should I order? The GPD is a big question mark.
I can't advise on this. I use the pump that came with my tank, and I don't know the Stenner equivalent.

Bought a new Pentair Acid Tank for $103 with shipping from a seller on eBay.
Nice!

I have a CircuPool Rj60 swcg and it came with a flow sensor. c also ended up sending another. As of now I have 1 flow meter hooked up and the new one is sitting on my workbench. I can use the original flow senser for the swcg and the old one for the Stenner. Or, perhaps one flow sensor can be used to detect flow for both the swcg and the stenner?
You could do either. Two flow switches, one for each purpose, or just one, and use a relay. I didn't want to push the amps required to run my acid pump through the very light-weight wire that came with my flow switch, so I used a relay to address that. If you run into that problem, then the relay you're going to need anyway could also handle the flow circuit the CircuPool needs. It's just a matter of getting the right relay.

I have all three! I have the independent flow switch that comes with my SWG, a separate flow switch for my acid pump, plus the relay for that.

Ideally, you try to minimize parts, minimize circuits, minimize potential failure points. But (IMO) the benefit of the added protection the acid pump flow switch provides outweighs the risk of that part (or associated relay circuit) failing. Generally, the flow switch or relay failing will produce a "no flow" condition, so your pump just won't fire. All that will cause is high pH, which you'll catch the next time you test for pH. On the off chance the flow switch or relay fail such to produce a "there is flow" condition, then that's the same as not having any flow switch at all. See what I'm getting at? If there's a chance an obscure failure is the same as not having the safeguard, that's not really a reason not to add the safeguard.
 

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The GPD is a big question mark.
I gave this some more thought. If you have options, you want the one with the lower GPD. Here's why.

When I have my IntellipH setup in "winter mode," I time the dispensing using a schedule in my pool automation controller. It can be scheduled in one-minute intervals, for any day of the week. That doesn't leave much in the way of fine tuning. I only need two minutes a day, for three days a week. I'd prefer to dispense every day, to keep the pH more stable (as opposed to a little high one day, and a little low the next day, then high again, then low, etc). But because I only have one-minute intervals, I can't turn it down "just a little." Cutting it from two minutes to one minute, would dispense 50% less! So instead, I have to skip days to get the weekly total my pool wants. Or alternately, I could dilute the acid in the tank, but then I'd be refilling it more often.

What would be better, is if the pump dispensed at a lower rate. Then I could run it for 3 or four minutes, and run it every day. That would give me more control, and since I'd be dispensing every day, the pH would be more stable from day to day.

If the Stenner timer can do one-second intervals, then this will be a non-issue. But if it can only do one-minute intervals, then you'll want your pump to have a lower dispensing rate, so that you have finer control.

That's the advantage of the Pentair IntellipH controller, it dispenses just a little acid every hour, every day. So, except for winter season, my pH is really stable, not just day to day, but every hour of every day. If your Stenner timer can do seconds, and multiple times per day (like very hour or two), every day, then that's the ideal.
 
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I can't advise on this. I use the pump that came with my tank, and I don't know the Stenner equivalent.


Nice!


You could do either. Two flow switches, one for each purpose, or just one, and use a relay. I didn't want to push the amps required to run my acid pump through the very light-weight wire that came with my flow switch, so I used a relay to address that. If you run into that problem, then the relay you're going to need anyway could also handle the flow circuit the CircuPool needs. It's just a matter of getting the right relay.

I have all three! I have the independent flow switch that comes with my SWG, a separate flow switch for my acid pump, plus the relay for that.

Ideally, you try to minimize parts, minimize circuits, minimize potential failure points. But (IMO) the benefit of the added protection the acid pump flow switch provides outweighs the risk of that part (or associated relay circuit) failing. Generally, the flow switch or relay failing will produce a "no flow" condition, so your pump just won't fire. All that will cause is high pH, which you'll catch the next time you test for pH. On the off chance the flow switch or relay fail such to produce a "there is flow" condition, then that's the same as not having any flow switch at all. See what I'm getting at? If there's a chance an obscure failure is the same as not having the safeguard, that's not really a reason not to add the safeguard.
I will install the second switch for the stenner and leave the one for the swcg alone. What relay should I buy for this scenario? Do I need a box to house the relay? Anything else to buy?
 
I gave this some more thought. If you have options, you want the one with the lower GPD. Here's why.

When I have my IntellipH setup in "winter mode," I time the dispensing using a schedule in my pool automation controller. It can be scheduled in one-minute intervals, for any day of the week. That doesn't leave much in the way of fine tuning. I only need two minutes a day, for three days a week. I'd prefer to dispense every day, to keep the pH more stable (as opposed to a little high one day, and a little low the next day, then high again, then low, etc). But because I only have one-minute intervals, I can't turn it down "just a little." Cutting it from two minutes to one minute, would dispense 50% less! So instead, I have to skip days to get the weekly total my pool wants. Or alternately, I could dilute the acid in the tank, but then I'd be refilling it more often.

What would be better, is if the pump dispensed at a lower rate. Then I could run it for 3 or four minutes, and run it every day. That would give me more control, and since I'd be dispensing every day, the pH would be more stable from day to day.

If the Stenner timer can do one-second intervals, then this will be a non-issue. But if it can only do one-minute intervals, then you'll want your pump to have a lower dispensing rate, so that you have finer control.

That's the advantage of the Pentair IntellipH controller, it dispenses just a little acid every hour, every day. So, except for winter season, my pH is really stable, not just day to day, but every hour of every day. If your Stenner timer can do seconds, and multiple times per day (like very hour or two), every day, then that's the ideal.
.
I gave this some more thought. If you have options, you want the one with the lower GPD. Here's why.

When I have my IntellipH setup in "winter mode," I time the dispensing using a schedule in my pool automation controller. It can be scheduled in one-minute intervals, for any day of the week. That doesn't leave much in the way of fine tuning. I only need two minutes a day, for three days a week. I'd prefer to dispense every day, to keep the pH more stable (as opposed to a little high one day, and a little low the next day, then high again, then low, etc). But because I only have one-minute intervals, I can't turn it down "just a little." Cutting it from two minutes to one minute, would dispense 50% less! So instead, I have to skip days to get the weekly total my pool wants. Or alternately, I could dilute the acid in the tank, but then I'd be refilling it more often.

What would be better, is if the pump dispensed at a lower rate. Then I could run it for 3 or four minutes, and run it every day. That would give me more control, and since I'd be dispensing every day, the pH would be more stable from day to day.

If the Stenner timer can do one-second intervals, then this will be a non-issue. But if it can only do one-minute intervals, then you'll want your pump to have a lower dispensing rate, so that you have finer control.

That's the advantage of the Pentair IntellipH controller, it dispenses just a little acid every hour, every day. So, except for winter season, my pH is really stable, not just day to day, but every hour of every day. If your Stenner timer can do seconds, and multiple times per day (like very hour or two), every day, then that's the ideal.
I think 1.92 ounces per minute model would provide enough granular control. Don’t you? For example, with the timer set to run the pump for 4 minutes a day, the pump would deliver 7.68 oz. When set to 3 minutes per day, the pump would deliver 5.76 oz. The next smaller pump delivers 1.02 oz per minute.

The Econ T pump with built in timer can be set to run in one minute increments several times a day. So, it can run for 1 min at 9am, 1 min at noon, 1 min at 3pm and so forth.
 
What relay should I buy for this scenario?
I used this one, but that's only for reference. You first must determine what voltage and amps your pump needs and what voltage is available to power the relay, and whether AC or DC for both. I developed the schematic you saw in my thread before I ordered any parts, so I could match up watts and volts and amps.

You should work on your schematic first, post it, then I can help with the parts list.
Do I need a box to house the relay? Anything else to buy?
Mine is all enclosed. Most relays have open contacts, so they should be housed somehow for both safety and to ward off the elements (corrosion, water, etc).

I think 1.92 ounces per minute model would provide enough granular control. Don’t you? For example, with the timer set to run the pump for 4 minutes a day, the pump would deliver 7.68 oz. When set to 3 minutes per day, the pump would deliver 5.76 oz. The next smaller pump delivers 1.02 oz per minute.

The Econ T pump with built in timer can be set to run in one minute increments several times a day. So, it can run for 1 min at 9am, 1 min at noon, 1 min at 3pm and so forth.
I pretty much have the same non-answer on this, too, because the amount of acid you'l need to dispense each day will depend on (1) the strength of acid you use, (2) the size of your pool, and (3) how much acid it requires to maintain your target pH. So what works for me won't necessarily work for you.

But for reference, I mentioned I pump acid for 2 minutes - 3 times a week. That's 6 minutes total. I dilute my 31% acid 1:1 with water, so it's half-strength.* So I wouldn't be able to use that Stenner timer for more runs than once a day (and I'd have to skip one day a week). I'd prefer to run 15 seconds, four times a day, six days a week (total 6 minutes per week), but neither my timer nor the Stenner can do that.

I can't say whether your example schedule of 1 minute, three or four times a day, seven days a week, for 28 minutes total per week, is going to be just right, or way too much. Do you have any records for reference? How many ounces of which acid have you been adding each week? That's the place to start.

But as I said, I think the smaller 1.02 per minute pump would be the better choice. It would give you the most control. If you needed to run it 6, 7, 8 times a day, to dispense the acid you need, that's fine, that's actually better, that just means your pH will be more stable throughout the day. But if you go with the bigger pump, and find it's dispensing too much at even 1 minute per day, then you'll have to start shaving days, and your pH will be less stable.

Anyway, let's start with how much acid you've been using, and how old is your pool finish. Some finishes use a lot of acid when new, and then taper as they get older. So if your finish is newish, you might end up needing way less acid eventually. Mine didn't do that, it's been sucking down acid since day one and six years later (has more to do with my fill water than my finish). Either way, you want the finer control, not the fastest dispensing.

* Diluting 31% by 1:1 with water is Pentair's recommendation. That's easier on all the parts and tubes and on the injector, so that's the way to go. Plus, at half strength, because you can't fit more than 4 gallons in the tank, that's 2 gallons of 31% total. So if your system goes haywire and drains the entire tank into your pool (which Murphy's Law states will only happen the day after you fill the tank!), that'll put just 2 gallons of acid into your pool. That won't hurt anything but your pH level, and that'll recover quick enough. Guys that want to save some filling effort and hook up 15 gallon tanks, or bigger, to a Stenner are just asking for a disaster (and a potential very dangerous one at that). There's a story here about that happening with a large chlorine tank, and some kids got hurt. You can just imagine jumping into a pool that's got an extra 15 gallons of 31% in it! Yikes. Then there's the issue of how much acid is safe to store in a single tank in a residential backyard. Four gallons is safe-ish. 15 or more is a toxic spill waiting to happen. More reasons I love my little 4 gallon Pentair system. Yes, I have to fill it a little more often, but the peace of mind is worth it.
 
Here is a link to the spec sheet. All the details you asked about are listed.

Based on your feedback, I feel like model # E10T2B will be a safe bet. It pumps at a rate of 0.76 ounces per minute. The timer works in one minute increments. The plaster is 10 years old and is a 10,000 gal setup. Current 31% MA demand is about 3-6 oz daily. I’ll dilute at 1:1 so the diluted dose will be about 6-12 oz each day.

I get what you’re saying about the added safety of a 4 gal 1:1 setup vs a 15 gal 1:1 setup.
 
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Looks pretty good. Do you know what "24 event timer" means? You might want to look into that. The schedules available on my pool automation controller are very limited, I'd hate for you to have the same issue. What is an event? Is on at 12:05 then off at 12:07 considered one event, or two? I had a cheap timer that considered on and off as two events. If that repeats every day, is that one event? Or seven? Or fourteen (7 ons, 7 offs)?

At 0.76 oz per minute, you could dispense your 6 oz in about 8 minutes. Or you could do 2 minute dispenses four times a day. Or one minute every hour for 8 hours (that's what my Pentair IntellipH controller does during the summer). The latter is best, but that's if your timer's event limit doesn't get in the way. Maybe you can find the manual online.

Did you confirm that model will bolt to the tank? It doesn't have to, it could be mounted elsewhere and still work fine, but it'd be nice to have it all self-contained.
 
Yes, I believe so. According to the site, a dose is a single on and off event. The timer supports up to 24 independent dosing events over the course of seven days. That allows for three doses a day over the course of seven days. Plus there are three remaining dosing events to spare each week. Seems fairly straight forward and based on old school tech. Probably a simple 8 bit program. Still, sometimes old and simple is better.

Highlights
  • 7 day / 24 hour timer
  • 24 independent events
  • Enclosed housing
  • Tube replacement without tools

Automatic Dosing on a Programmed Schedule
The Econ T provides a 24-event control capability with an integral timer in a compact pump for light duty applications requiring a dosing schedule.
How It Works: There are 24 independent programmable on and off events within a 7-day period. The minimum is 1 minute up to a maximum of 23 hours and 59 minutes within each programmed event. Each event can be programmed for a specific ON time and a specific OFF time in increments by hour and minute.

I don’t think I’ll mount the pump to the acid tank because it may not fit and it would be more exposed to the elements. I ordered a three foot wide canopy to provide shade for the swcg controller and Stenner pump. The tank can sit on the ground under the canopy area.

It’s great to have feedback on what to look out for like this.
 
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"There are 24 independent programmable on and off events..." sounds like "on" is an event, and "off" is a separate (additional) event. While "Each event can be programmed for a specific ON time and a specific OFF time..." sounds like the on and off together is one event.

I guess you'll find out which! I made it work with just eight schedules (which has to cover filtering, vac, solar, etc), so I only have one schedule for my acid dispensing. I'm sure you'll make it work.
 
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If you are right, I’ll still be happy. Even if I only has one adjustable dose a day, I feel it will work fine.

Stenner pump ordered. 👍
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