Shocking discovery

[Zenspa]

So I’m about 7 months into learning to handle this beachcomber leap 360 and I had great success until after my first refill and the cold weather set in. Went away for a few days and I was complacent with the sanitizer levels and came back to murky green water. I fought with it for a time but gave in and went for another dump and fill after about a month. Over the winter it’s been used a little less than the summer/fall months but still tend to get in 5-7 times per week. (I was getting in for a quick soak in the mornings when the weather was still warm) Long story somewhat shorter I’ve just learned that I’ve been handling shocking all together wrong. I was never clear on hitting 10 ppm of FC while utilizing the non-chlorine shock.
I’m awaiting the delivery of my Taylor 2006 test kit and have been limping by with a basic ch/ph drop test, a cheap fish tank alky drop test and of course the strips.
Where I’m at is clear water that has ‘perfect’ levels as per beachcomber but the green tint is real and my combined chlorine is off the charts. Is there hope to clear up the green? Am I destroying my heater/heat exchanger? Can a shock at this stage clear up the combines chlorine? My CYA level is around 30-50 ppm and I’m currently in the process of switching over to such em/bleach as I’ve read it’s the most reliable for clear water while keeping CYA down and TDS in check.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! Providing chemical guidance will be difficult as you are still waiting on your K-2006 test kit to arrive, but we could start by asking some initial questions:
1 - How old is this batch of water?
2 - Does your fill water come from a well?
3 - What products have you been using to chlorinate and disinfect the tub?

 

[Bperry]

View attachment 473029
So I’m about 7 months into learning to handle this beachcomber leap 360 and I had great success until after my first refill and the cold weather set in. Went away for a few days and I was complacent with the sanitizer levels and came back to murky green water. I fought with it for a time but gave in and went for another dump and fill after about a month. Over the winter it’s been used a little less than the summer/fall months but still tend to get in 5-7 times per week. (I was getting in for a quick soak in the mornings when the weather was still warm) Long story somewhat shorter I’ve just learned that I’ve been handling shocking all together wrong. I was never clear on hitting 10 ppm of FC while utilizing the non-chlorine shock.
View attachment 473029I’m awaiting the delivery of my Taylor 2006 test kit and have been limping by with a basic ch/ph drop test, a cheap fish tank alky drop test and of course the strips.
Where I’m at is clear water that has ‘perfect’ levels as per beachcomber but the green tint is real and my combined chlorine is off the charts. Is there hope to clear up the green? Am I destroying my heater/heat exchanger? Can a shock at this stage clear up the combines chlorine? My CYA level is around 30-50 ppm and I’m currently in the process of switching over to such em/bleach as I’ve read it’s the most reliable for clear water while keeping CYA down and TDS in check.

MPS will make the combined chlorine read high. So if the non-chlorine shock was that, then that’s why.

 

[Zenspa]

Welcome to TFP! Providing chemical guidance will be difficult as you are still waiting on your K-2006 test kit to arrive, but we could start by asking some initial questions:
1 - How old is this batch of water?
2 - Does your fill water come from a well?
3 - What products have you been using to chlorinate and disinfect the tub?

Yea limping by with the haphazard testing I have is definitely a challenge. Water was reset with a pipe clean and wipe down early Jan (Jan 3 I believe) and we tend to be two in for about 45-60 min every day. Water is city water…tends to come natural and a touch on the soft side (100-150 CH). I’ve strictly used the beachcomber care free system up until today as I’ve wanted to switch to dichlor/bleach so I shocked with 6% bleach and the beachcomber no chlorine shock (care free) as prescribed. Today I chlorine shocked to 10 ppm FC with the bleach.

MPS will make the combined chlorine read high. So if the non-chlorine shock was that, then that’s why.

I’m interested in sourcing MPS and I understand this is the non chlorine shock but I used the beachcomber product care free today. If MPS and care free are comparable though it’s good to know that the CC could be related to that. After what feels like the entire day of cycling the jets the water seems to have improved color wise but I’m still hoping to see the CC drop.

 

[Mdragger88]

You mentioned a “pipe clean”, what product did you use?
An Ahhsome purge is definitely recommended & has proven to be superior to other purge products on the market by multiple folks here & in testing done on other forums.
Aside from that,
Here’s what I found - the ingredients in Beach comber Carefree

It is not mps
It seems to be a mixture of of a peroxodisulfate oxidizer (which is a known irritant to the skin as is mps), and dry acid (sodium hydrogen sulfate is another name for sodium bisulfate AKA dry acid or pH down)
@JoyfulNoise may be able to shed some more light on the negative/positive effects of such a mixture.
At any rate, mps or any other oxidizer such as this is just that - an oxidizer, not a sanitizer.
Chlorine is both an oxidizer & a sanitizer when used in appropriate amounts so why fool with the other?
Add in the fact that mps (not sure about the product you have) can interfere with cc testing & its use can get tumultuous. Many choose to forego it for these reasons, myself included. Keep it simple you know.
About the appropriate amount of fc -
It’s not a single target (ie 10ppm).
Your minimum, target & slam/shock fc level necessary changes depending upon your cya so you can see why the ranges strips provide are inadequate.
See the —> FC/CYA Levels
I couldn’t get the beachcomber “boost” msds to come up but zooming in on the label on their website it appears to be dichlor (albeit an expensive one).
You definitely want to be certain that the fc in the tub ALWAYS remains ABOVE minimum for your cya AT ALL TIMES lest nasties will grow .
You can attempt the
SLAM Process with liquid chlorine to clear the tub but an accurate test kit will be necessary to accomplish this.
You can use
PoolMath effects of adding to try & calculate the amount of cya the dichlor you have added since your last fill has added to the tub to get a little better idea of what your cya level is so you can chlorinate appropriately until your kit comes. If things haven’t improved by then it’s time to purge, dump the water, & begin fresh.
Here’s the guide

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.google.com

 

[Methuselah]

@Mdragger88 's link at the bottom is your best starting point!

 

[Zenspa]

You mentioned a “pipe clean”, what product did you use?
An Ahhsome purge is definitely recommended & has proven to be superior to other purge products on the market by multiple folks here & in testing done on other forums.
Aside from that,
Here’s what I found - the ingredients in Beach comber Carefree
View attachment 473086
It is not mps
It seems to be a mixture of of a peroxodisulfate oxidizer (which is a known irritant to the skin as is mps), and dry acid (sodium hydrogen sulfate is another name for sodium bisulfate AKA dry acid or pH down)
@JoyfulNoise may be able to shed some more light on the negative/positive effects of such a mixture.
At any rate, mps or any other oxidizer such as this is just that - an oxidizer, not a sanitizer.
Chlorine is both an oxidizer & a sanitizer when used in appropriate amounts so why fool with the other?
Add in the fact that mps (not sure about the product you have) can interfere with cc testing & its use can get tumultuous. Many choose to forego it for these reasons, myself included. Keep it simple you know.
About the appropriate amount of fc -
It’s not a single target (ie 10ppm).
Your minimum, target & slam/shock fc level necessary changes depending upon your cya so you can see why the ranges strips provide are inadequate.
See the —> FC/CYA Levels
I couldn’t get the beachcomber “boost” msds to come up but zooming in on the label on their website it appears to be dichlor (albeit an expensive one).
You definitely want to be certain that the fc in the tub ALWAYS remains ABOVE minimum for your cya AT ALL TIMES lest nasties will grow .
You can attempt the
SLAM Process with liquid chlorine to clear the tub but an accurate test kit will be necessary to accomplish this.
You can use
PoolMath effects of adding to try & calculate the amount of cya the dichlor you have added since your last fill has added to the tub to get a little better idea of what your cya level is so you can chlorinate appropriately until your kit comes. If things haven’t improved by then it’s time to purge, dump the water, & begin fresh.
Here’s the guide

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.google.com

I used the beachcomber pipe clean product. Seems like most of their products are over priced and not necessarily effective beyond what is available at hardware stores. I believe that my current water will get me by for a spell and hopefully come warm weather I’ll have an opportunity to do another purge (ahhsome is currently waiting on the shelf for the next one) and if I’m understanding things correctly then I might just go for straight bleach for sanitizer and add a stabilizer to the recommended level.
So are you saying that the mps/non chlorine shock is not necessarily required for routine water maintenance?
Sorry for what feels like basic questions but after having a few troubled times I’m realizing how poorly beachcomber set me up for success. The swag method definitely doesn’t allow for correcting levels easily and having to dump every 2-3 months is disheartening.
Thanks for all the info though and I’m excited for my test kit to arrive so I can have a better view of what’s happening.

 

[Mdragger88]

if I’m understanding things correctly then I might just go for straight bleach for sanitizer and add a stabilizer to the recommended level.

You can do this (i do it sometimes because I already have stabilizer on hand for my pool)
or
use the dichlor to chlorinate until your cya is around 30 ppm then switch to liquid chlorine/ unadulterated bleach thereafter. AKA- the dichlor then bleach method as outlined in the guide.

So are you saying that the mps/non chlorine shock is not necessarily required for routine water maintenance?

It is not required-
I have never used MPS in my hot tub or pool, adequate free chlorine has always been enough even after high bather loads or hair conditioner/lotion incidents along with cleaning the filter in those instances of course. Some people use it after parties etc. to lend a helping oxidizing hand to fc but with our sensitive skin & the fact that it interferes with cc testing/needs a special reagent makes it not worth it to me. One less thing, like Forrest Gump says.
BTW- tracking cc’s is a huge indicator in determining water health,
persistent cc’s above .5 that aren’t brought down by reaching slam level fc are the main indicator that lets you know it’s time to purge & refill.

CC - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

& here’s a good thread that may explain things a little better than I can

Shocking doesn't eliminate CC

I have a 355 gal hot tub, and as a result of CC creeping up to 0.5 - 0.6, I've decided to shock the spa. My CYA is 35, and consulting the Cl/CYA chart, I see I need an FC level of 14 ppm. To be safe, I raise FC to 16, and test again later in the day. FC has dropped to 12 or so. I raise it...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Methuselah]

I used the beachcomber pipe clean product. Seems like most of their products are over priced and not necessarily effective beyond what is available at hardware stores. I believe that my current water will get me by for a spell and hopefully come warm weather I’ll have an opportunity to do another purge (ahhsome is currently waiting on the shelf for the next one) and if I’m understanding things correctly then I might just go for straight bleach for sanitizer and add a stabilizer to the recommended level.
So are you saying that the mps/non chlorine shock is not necessarily required for routine water maintenance?
Sorry for what feels like basic questions but after having a few troubled times I’m realizing how poorly beachcomber set me up for success. The swag method definitely doesn’t allow for correcting levels easily and having to dump every 2-3 months is disheartening.
Thanks for all the info though and I’m excited for my test kit to arrive so I can have a better view of what’s happening.

Is weekly shock needed?

As per the spa sticky thread: "Never let FC drop to Zero for any length of time. Keep it between 3-6 ppm normally, min of 1 ppm, and shock to 12 ppm once a week." If my CC is 0.5 or less, do I need to shock once a week? thanks!

www.troublefreepool.com

It's not as cheap as most folks will tell you to dump and start over, but a doctor's visit for hot tub related rash isn't all that cheap (or fun) either. Too, my attitude is that once the water has issues you CAN fight with it to try and salvage it, but I'd rather dump it so I can use the tub without having to worry about the water trying to kill me. Green water is an issue...