Does your contract mention Leisure Pools in any way?
If yes, what does the contract say in reference to Leisure Pools?
If yes, what does the contract say in reference to Leisure Pools?
Fiberglass pool install has gone awry - Looking for Leisure Pools brand installation manual or guidelines
- Thread starter Coz
- Start date
- Jul 10, 2022
- 50
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-15
Yes, I had a meeting with an attorney today and I do have a case. I am weighing options. ThanksIs the contractor properly licensed, bonded and insured?
Does the contract specify any quality control metrics?
Do you have a written document where Leisure Pools says that the builder is a "Certified" Dealer or Installer?
Do you have anything in writing where Leisure Pools ensures the installation will be done correctly?
Do you have a written "Recommendation" from Leisure Pools for the builder?
The APSP 2013 Workmanship Guidelines and Practices Guide is an authoritative Industry Standard.
If the company won’t install the pool to your satisfaction, then you can try a variety of things to get them to comply.
You can hire a local professional expert as a consultant to represent you.
They would need verified qualifications like being a licensed engineer or a licensed contractor.
You can file a complaint with the contractor’s licensing board.
You can file a claim against their insurance or bond.
Some states have a homeowner’s recovery fund.
You can file a civil claim if all other avenues don’t work.
SOUTH CAROLINA CONSTRUCTION CLAIMS RESOURCES
wiki.theclm.org
Ok, sorry to know that you are going through this.
Hopefully, you will get an acceptable outcome.
Hopefully, you will get an acceptable outcome.
- Jul 10, 2022
- 50
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-15
Leisure Pools has finally responded to my queries. I had to email the COO David Hay to make anything happen. If anyone is considering one of their pools I would be very careful. I am not getting a great deal of support, only claims of them "just being the manufacturer". I will not elaborate further as this is very likely heading to court.
Don’t trust forecasts or projections, especially from someone who has a financial interest in making those projections.
Whether you’re buying a stock or a house or a business, the chairman and CEO of Berkshire Hathaway advises to do your own research.
Don’t trust the “experts.”
“Don’t ask the barber whether you need a haircut,” Buffett told the audience at Berkshire’s 1994 annual meeting.
- Jul 10, 2022
- 50
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-15
Cute post for two reasons.. I actually know Warren and his wife Astrid. Secondly, the Federal and SC consumer protection laws are pretty clear.
Hate to say it but not really. I've worked for several construction companies that were dealers for various products and handled all the paperwork to recertify as a dealer each year. Being a "dealer" was a privilege we paid for. We got certain benefits from it but we were required to have a certain sales volume, branding, CE, etc. to keep that status. If also locks you into their products. No double-dealing allowed. No different from a Ford car dealership. You won't see these guys selling brand new Chevys. If we did shoddy work, it was completely on us not the company we were "dealers" for. The only thing they'd do if we generated a ton of complaints would be pull our dealer status. I've seen some really, really bad work done and never once seen a manufacturer drop a dealer for it.
Straight off the manufacturer's website: not responsible for the actions of these dealers or liable for any related damage to persons, property or Leisure Pools products. For further information regarding the relationship between Leisure Pools and its dealers and for related advice to purchasers, please refer to the Terms and Conditions portion of the Leisure Pools website here. Read the Notice and Disclaimer of Manufacturer / Dealer Non-Relationship portion.
Your best bet will be going after the installer. It's their bad work and if they're a legit company you will have recourse. Trying to fight a large corporation is just going to throw you on the drained wallet hamster wheel.
It depends on the relationship of the manufacturer and the installer.
Under the theory of vicarious liability, the manufacturer might be liable if they have a certain amount of ownership or control over the installer.
For example, the lady who sued McDonald’s because she was burned by hot coffee was able to sue the McDonald’s corporation even though the franchisee was a separate company that owned the franchise because McDonald's had a lot of control over the process of making and serving the coffee.
For a civil cause of action, the plaintiff can argue any theory they want like vicarious liability or respondeat superior.
The judge will decide if the legal theory on which the cause of action is based is valid or not.
Also, just because someone disclaims any responsibility, it does not absolve them of responsibility.
It all comes down to a lot of details and on the opinion of a judge.
You can certainly file the case with the manufacturer listed as a codefendant, but Leisure Pools will likely file a motion to dismiss, which might, or might not, be granted.
In any case, you can certainly pressure both parties to perform assuming they have the ability to do so.
The installer is probably completely incompetent and they just don’t have the ability to do the job correctly even if they wanted to.
Is there any evidence that the plaintiff saw and agreed to those terms?
At this point, we don’t even know if the installer is a real company or if they have any sort of license, insurance or bond.
You can file against their insurance and bond if they have those.
You can file criminal complaints in some circumstances like not having a required license.
The problem now is that all work comes to a stop for a year, or two, or more, while this all drags through the court system and the legal fees add up into the thousands.
Even if you win some sort of award, you still have to collect, assuming that that is even possible.
The person would probably disappear or file for bankruptcy.
In any case, if the present company can’t or won’t finish the job correctly, you might as well find a different contractor and get it finished.
Excellent points all round.
Just my thoughts but given how conspicuous information about the non-relationship between the manufacturer and dealer/installer is posted everywhere on the website, I’d be willing to bet there’s zero control. Doesn’t seem like they’re franchising dealer/installers. There’s even a lengthy bit about people doing their own due diligence before hiring an installer.
Reading what they offer dealers, it seems fairly standard to what I’ve been accustomed to. Essentially, it equates to agree to sell our pools (possibly exclusively) and we’ll help you do it with training, marketing, quick supply, competitive limitations, etc. I’m not familiar with SC state and local contractor regulations. However, if specific licensing is required by the state/local regulations, in addition to normal insurance, business license, that’s something that the manufacturer will require a dealer to have before setting them up as a dealer. In all my years doing this, I’ve been required to produce the paperwork exactly once. Always at the initial dealer agreement. I’ve never had anything reverified when it was time for the annual resigning. Ever. Also, any of this would only apply to a dealer installer. None beyond a business license and possibly insurance would apply to a sales dealer only.
The OP’s contract (if there is one) is with the installer not the manufacturer. I doubt the disclaimers/terms and conditions were even made known to the OP by the dealer. If they were, I’d lay odds it’s in the impossible to read fine print no one bothers to try to read before signing that contract or it’s in the paperwork that came with the pool when the OP took delivery (if manufacturer paperwork comes with them I have no idea). I have no doubt the manufacturer is aware there’s a lot of shoddy pool installations going on. It seems to me that they’re attempting to insulate themselves from that. Can’t say I blame them. I recall seeing on the site that legal venue would be in Australia or US Federal court. Since this is an international company, were not talking cheap or timely litigation here. I see money being better spent getting the pool done correctly. If it were me though, I’d be just as livid as the OP.
Looks you're going to need to learn how to speak Australian and sue them in Australia.
Maybe the builder doesn't understand metric?
Maybe the builder doesn't understand metric?
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When it gets down to setting up the skimmers and returns the instructions are “while you’re in a drilling mood go ahead and”
American owners manual no fun moody metrics in this one
Lake Placid
In The Industry
- May 27, 2021
- 671
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I couldn’t get past a “whacker packer” as a required tool, much less making it down to being in a “drilling mood”.
I was kind of holding off mentioning this. But I agree. Hopefully my opinion counts with some experience in this area. I can also see two sides to this story, as it could vary greatly depending on the dealer agreement and the product sold. Im a part owner/silent partner of a franchise for multiple brands (New/used vehicle sales, service, and parts) The OEM's couldn't care less what we do until we do something that might jeopardize their image. People have called or written to corporate to report us, 99.9% of the time its a customer who absolutely isn't rational and the OEMs understand this and handle it without doing anything to us. The reps and us usually laugh about it in the end.
If we did however do something that was bad the OEM would punish us. Often a customer would never know. Could be a simple slap on the wrist (small fine or just a strongly worded letter from legal), to reducing our allocations (happening with some dealer brands charging over MSRP), or if severe enough revoking the franchise (only saw this once and it was a dealer abusing their inventory floor plan which also involved criminal charges). However we dont install the product, just PDI, put gas in and sell it. If it has a defect it is the manufacture that is usually responsible, but up to us as the dealer to remedy it, and we are compensated by the OEM to handle the problem. Usually with some good will thrown to the customer for missing the problem ourselves in PDI.
But thats just it here, this isn't a manufacture defect or mistake, so its not a manufacture problem. This would be the equivalent of us selling you a vehicle without oil and your engine blows and we refuse to fix it saying nothing is wrong. While I am surprised Leisure wasn't more supportive and that they should be concerned a dealer is misrepresenting their brand. But I think the approach to blame them was/is wrong. As all they truly are is the manufacture of the product to be installed, which ultimately they have no control over. If Leisure wanted to be proactive they should send a rep out and inspect the product and inform the dealer where they installed wrong and how to remedy.
Unfortunately I dont see them being this proactive as "pools are selling big one bad egg wont ruin us" so they've washed their hands of this. But ultimately even if your builder is a "certified" installer mentioned on Leisures website, this is 100% a you and your builder issue. Involving leisure is complicating things. They're a large corporation and have big expensive lawyers, who made sure to always be well shielded of this, and had nothing to do with what has gone wrong on your build. The only argument you may have and its a thin one is that they should have vetted the dealer more, trained him or her better, etc. But I'm sure those big expensive lawyers have a 25 page disclaimer on why that doesn't matter and that you agreed to when you purchased their product. Just my 2 cents. Hopefully this matter is straightened out. There are lots of these stories going around these days unfortunately. Almost had my own but skirted that thankfully without too much cost to my pocket book or my build. Some aren't so lucky. I wish the OP Good luck to a speedy and not to stressful solution.
There was NO WAY I could tap that required tool on my phone so I had to settle for drillingWhat part of SC are you In, if you're in Charleston I can possibly help.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Jul 10, 2022
- 50
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-15
I understand what you are saying. I have a little different take on it and different way of seeking damages. Nuff said.. The "rice paper wall" claiming lack of responsibility only goes so far..