Thinking about changing over to SWCG!

[Definingk]

Hello everyone! I have been running a smallish (14' x 28' x 8' deep) vinyl pool for 25 years and am looking for a more hands-off approach.
I would purchase an entire SWCG system including any automation that would read the current chlorine and adjust on the fly if that even exists?

Here's my problem: My pool is on the edge of a forest and gets a TON of organics (spruce pollen, poplar fluff, ants etc) in it - especially in the spring. For example I opened the pool May 24th this year and even though I had a filter sock in the skimmer basket my cartridge filters had to be pulled and washed off the end of June because they were matted and clogged. During the season I have to pull and rinse off the pump basket about every 5 days because its full of bugs/spiders and organics. I have to vaccuum the pool at least once a week so it looks respectable.

Would a SWCG system be realistic for me given that my sanitizer levels take a beating from extreme organics?
Cheers,
Karen from Edmonton, Alberta

 

[Jimrahbe]

Karen,

I don't think a SWCG is going to help keep junk out of your filter.

Your best option would be to install a much larger filter. The bigger the filter the longer you can go between cleanings.

Tell us exactly what brand and size filter you have.

I find it odd that your debris are inside your filter instead of on the outside. That just may be the way yours works, I don't know.

A SWCG would help you maintain a more stable FC level. You don't say you are having trouble maintaining your FC and I doubt that the debris have anything to do with using up your FC.

Tell us what your CYA level is and what FC are you trying to maintain?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Definingk]

Karen,

I don't think a SWCG is going to help keep junk out of your filter.

Your best option would be to install a much larger filter. The bigger the filter the longer you can go between cleanings.

Tell us exactly what brand and size filter you have.

I find it odd that your debris are inside your filter instead of on the outside. That just may be the way yours works, I don't know.

A SWCG would help you maintain a more stable FC level. You don't say you are having trouble maintaining your FC and I doubt that the debris have anything to do with using up your FC.

Tell us what your CYA level is and what FC are you trying to maintain?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim,
Keeping junk out of my filter isn't an issue as it's a given and I just deal with it but
I'm just not sure a SWCG system can generate enough chlorine when I have a very organic laden pool..?
Are there any circumstances where the FC can't be maintained at the usual levels (1.5 - 3 ppm)

I would hate to spend a ton of money changing over only to find the system ineffective.

My FC is usually high 6-9 and my CYA is also high 166

As for your question about the filter that is interesting indeed, I did not know that. The outside gets coated as well. It's a STA-RITE System 3 modular media filter. Do you think it's not working as it should?
Thanks for your help!!

 

[proavia]

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[Jimrahbe]

Do you think it's not working as it should?

I am not familiar with your specific filter, so I don't know. I just find it odd, but that does not mean it is not the way it was designed.

Your whole problem is that your CYA is way too high.. See this chart. FC/CYA Levels

With a CYA of 100 you'd need an FC of 11 to 13 ppm.. At 166 you'd need to be at 20 ppm or higher.

If I were in your shoes, the first thing I'd want to do is get my CYA down to a reasonable level.

I have three saltwater pools that all have an FC of 6 to 8 ppm. The cells have no problem keeping it there.

Keep in mind that we always recommend that any salt cell be rated for at least 2 x the volume of the pool. So, a 20K pool needs a 40K cell.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Karen,

Can you please show me a pic of your filter and how it is connected to your pump?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

I am not familiar with your specific filter, so I don't know. I just find it odd, but that does not mean it is not the way it was designed

Looks like it's either the 450 or 500 Sq ft system 3 cartridge with the 2 large filters instead of 4. They use both the inside and outside of the cartridge to filter and it looks to be doing an amazing job, but still overrun.

Karen, how much chlorine are you adding per day ? Is a normal dose of a couple PPM keeping up, or are you dosing 10+ ? Even if so, a spitball guess of your pool volume based on the measurements provided is about 15k gallons, and a Pentair IC60 rated for 4X your pool would produce 16 ppm a day. I can't see how that wouldn't be way more than you need.

Although you are overrun with organics, they are the fresh kind and not the spent all winter festering and decaying kind. They likely aren't affecting your daily FC loss much.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Karen,

Newdude took the time to slap me around a little bit until I was able to understand how your filter works. It is a great design and does capture debris on both sides of the media.

So once again I was concerned over nothing...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Definingk]

I am not familiar with your specific filter, so I don't know. I just find it odd, but that does not mean it is not the way it was designed.

Your whole problem is that your CYA is way too high.. See this chart. FC/CYA Levels

With a CYA of 100 you'd need an FC of 11 to 13 ppm.. At 166 you'd need to be at 20 ppm or higher.

If I were in your shoes, the first thing I'd want to do is get my CYA down to a reasonable level.

I have three saltwater pools that all have an FC of 6 to 8 ppm. The cells have no problem keeping it there.

Keep in mind that we always recommend that any salt cell be rated for at least 2 x the volume of the pool. So, a 20K pool needs a 40K cell.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks sooo much Jim! I think I'll drain a bunch of water to see if I can bring the CYA down.
Also thanks for the very valuable tip on cell size.
I really appreciate your help!
Karen

 

[Definingk]

Karen,

Newdude took the time to slap me around a little bit until I was able to understand how your filter works. It is a great design and does capture debris on both sides of the media.

So once again I was concerned over nothing...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Definingk]

Looks like it's either the 450 or 500 Sq ft system 3 cartridge with the 2 large filters instead of 4. They use both the inside and outside of the cartridge to filter and it looks to be doing an amazing job, but still overrun.

Karen, how much chlorine are you adding per day ? Is a normal dose of a couple PPM keeping up, or are you dosing 10+ ? Even if so, a spitball guess of your pool volume based on the measurements provided is about 15k gallons, and a Pentair IC60 rated for 4X your pool would produce 16 ppm a day. I can't see how that wouldn't be way more than you need.

Although you are overrun with organics, they are the fresh kind and not the spent all winter festering and decaying kind. They likely aren't affecting your daily FC loss much.

You are correct ND, it's got a cartridge that sleeves inside a larger cartridge and yup it's about 15K gallons.
Based upon my convo with Jim it seems that my FC is held in check by my huge CYA level.
I think my first order of business will be to drain a bunch of water...
Hope that helps...
I'm glad to hear that you can generate lots of chlorine (if needed) with a SWCG, thanks.
I will continue to work towards switching over but need to get my pool in order right now.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out!
Karen

 

[wireform]

How are you testing cuz if that's pool store results I wouldn't trust that.

 

[Definingk]

How are you testing cuz if that's pool store results I wouldn't trust that.

I've had a few different pool companies over the 25 years here in Edmonton. There are not many companies as we don't have many outdoor pools because of the weather.
This past weekend I took a water sample in to a longstanding company (they now use some kind of computer scanner to evaluate the water) and they test for free expecting nothing in return, i.e. no agenda if that's what you are wondering?
However, on a weekly basis the fellow who opens and closes the pool each year comes by (no charge) and tests my water with a professional Taylor kit. Unfortunately he does not feel a high level of CYA is a problem and so to that end I am in this pickle. My CYA is at 166.
I'm going to purge as much water as I can (vinyl pool) this weekend thanks to the advice of others on this forum.
Cheers,
Karen

 

[JamesW]

You can't have water going both ways.

[edit]You can have water going both ways.[end edit]

Dirt collects on the outside of the filter.

Can you show a picture of the system?

 

[JamesW]

Is the inlet the top?

What exact model number do you have?

 

[Jimrahbe]

James,

Unlike most cartridges, the Sta-Rite ones are more like DE grids. The inside is hollow so water flow in both sides, and just like a DE filter there is a manifold at the bottom that collects the water and sends it out to the pool.

@Newdude has some good pics.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

Dirt collects on the outside of the filter.

It is sandwich where the inside/outside filter material is the bread and the water leaves through a port in between them. There are two ports in the filter housing that the filters slip over and there are no parts to assemble/break.

 

[JamesW]

OK, thanks for the help.

 

[Flying Tivo]

Interesting Filtering method!

 

[JamesW]

It's a clever way to get a lot of surface area in a compact unit.