A&A Infloor system leaves debris in corners of deep end, is this normal?

[LearningAboutPools]

This is the A&A infloor system I have, and the positioning of the popup heads.

Port 5 in the deep end is where the debris tend to gather, specifically behind the head in the upper right-hand corner of the diagram.

I have set the pump to 3400 RPM when it does the cleaning. I've shut down all returns except for the in-floor heads, and I've turned the skimmer off or down to 10% so that the main drain gets 100% to 90% of the flow.

It doesn't seem to make a difference.

Suggestions? I just had the pool completed a month or so ago, but I am an owner/builder.

EDIT: Does it make a difference where the heads are pointed when they blow the water out? Are the heads supposed to be lined up so the water "blows out" along those lines that are drawn? I am pretty sure the heads are just sort of randomly set to blow water whatever direction.

 

[proavia]

No matter how good an infloor system is designed, they all seem to have at least one dead spot. Inflor was all the rage 20-30 years ago. Now the best cleaners are robots.

If you would have asked about cleaners prior to your build, I would have suggested a robot - even though I have a functional 20+ year old infloor system.

Did A&A do the design for your infloor and are the heads where they specified?
Call A&A and ask them about the issue. In the past, they have sent out their tech to tweak the system and/or replace heads for customers.

Which type A&A heads did you use?
How long does a zone run before switching to the next zone?
How long do you run at 3400 rpm per day? All at once or broken up into 2 or more times daily?
What is your full pump schedule and rpm settings?

Are your infloor and venturi skimmer return line the only returns to the pool? If so, the infloor is still returning water to the pool most anytime the pump is running. At lower rpms, it just won't blow debris as far and it can congregate in various places. Once the pump is on high speed, itcan take a while to move the congregated debris to help it get removed.

It really makes no difference which direction all the heads are pointing. You could point them all north and within a week or less they will be out of sync. The system blows water around in hopes that the fine debris mixes with the water and eventually gets filtered out. The larger/heavier debris is supposed to eventually get tothe main drains.

Since you have a venturi skimmer, maybe set the main drain/skimmer valve to 40% main drain and 60% skimmer - and open the venturi return line to the skimmer at least 50% or more. Thisshould provide adequate pull from the main drain and still get good skimming action. Adjust each line as necessary to provide the skimming action needed.

Maybe brush the area where debris build to give the infloor a fighting chance to push the debris toward the main drain.

 

[LearningAboutPools]

No matter how good an infloor system is designed, they all seem to have at least one dead spot. Inflor was all the rage 20-30 years ago. Now the best cleaners are robots.

If you would have asked about cleaners prior to your build, I would have suggested a robot - even though I have a functional 20+ year old infloor system.

Did A&A do the design for your infloor and are the heads where they specified?
Call A&A and ask them about the issue. In the past, they have sent out their tech to tweak the system and/or replace heads for customers.

Which type A&A heads did you use?
How long does a zone run before switching to the next zone?
How long do you run at 3400 rpm per day? All at once or broken up into 2 or more times daily?
What is your full pump schedule and rpm settings?

Are your infloor and venturi skimmer return line the only returns to the pool? If so, the infloor is still returning water to the pool most anytime the pump is running. At lower rpms, it just won't blow debris as far and it can congregate in various places. Once the pump is on high speed, itcan take a while to move the congregated debris to help it get removed.

It really makes no difference which direction all the heads are pointing. You could point them all north and within a week or less they will be out of sync. The system blows water around in hopes that the fine debris mixes with the water and eventually gets filtered out. The larger/heavier debris is supposed to eventually get tothe main drains.

Since you have a venturi skimmer, maybe set the main drain/skimmer valve to 40% main drain and 60% skimmer - and open the venturi return line to the skimmer at least 50% or more. Thisshould provide adequate pull from the main drain and still get good skimming action. Adjust each line as necessary to provide the skimming action needed.

Maybe brush the area where debris build to give the infloor a fighting chance to push the debris toward the main drain.

Thank you!

Yes, A&A designed the layout. Here is the full diagram. It uses the G4 heads.

 

[proavia]

Glad to see you have the venturi heads as they provide better water output from the popup nozzle.

Do you have the listed 2.5" suction line from the main drain to the leaf vac?
Do you have a proper heater bypass?
Is the water valve installed at the height listed in the diagram?
Do you have any other water features that require return water? If so, are they all off?

Do you have automation?
Post a pic of your equipment pad and of the water valve.

 

[LearningAboutPools]

I don't believe I have any heater bypass?

I do have the leaf catcher that Pentair makes.

Yes, I do turn off other features when I run the infloor heads. I put it 100% at in floor returns and 100% for main drain return (so skimmer doesn't get any love during that time).
*Ignore the valve settings in the photos, those are not configured for infloor, I was tweaking my IC40.

 

[proavia]

Not having a proper heater bypass certainly is reducing your return flow (and reducing the water volume needed for the infloor to work at its max efficiency).

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Apparently Pentair is in partnership with A&A or has bought A&A. Hopefully, they will still honor the lifetime warranty to original owners.

Here are details about your A&A LeafVac (notice the Pentair name on the A&A page).

LeafVac Debris Containment – Pentair-A&A Manufacturing

aamfg.com

You can set the main drain/skimmer valve about 30%-40% main drain and 70%-60% skimmer and just leave it there. You will need to set the venturi skimmer "return" valve to then give sufficient skimmer action.

QuikSkim Venturi Powered – Pentair-A&A Manufacturing

aamfg.com

No reason the IC40 can't generate chlorine when the infloor is running. But for best cleaning action, I believe a heater bypass is necessary (see first paragraph).

I don't have automation (or a SWG ), but my infloor gets all my return flow regardless of what rpm my VS pump is running at. I do run return flow thru my separate returns and water feature at least once a week for a few minutes. For my pool, 2900 rpm is adequate (most of the time) for cleaning in two schedules of 2 hours each (morning and afternoon). The rest of the time I run at 1100 rpm, which provide good skimming during the rest of my run time.

 

[LearningAboutPools]

I have a Pentair Mastertemp 400. From my limited understanding, it has a built-in bypass valve. Is that true?

Do I need to or will I benefit from an external bypass valve (other than if I need to take the heater offline for maint or something of course)?

With the builtin bypass will it prevent lower PH and other issues from damaging my heater when I have the heater off?

 

[proavia]

I still believe it will have restricted flow. The internal bypass allows water to bypass heater core when water pressure rises above the internal bypass set point. An external bypass (see my previous link) allows 100% of the water to bypass the entire heater.

The internal bypass only bypasses some of the water entering the heater - so an internal bypass will notprevent heater damage do to low pH or most other issues that can damage heaters.

The best heater bypass is to plumb it as shown in the schematic in the link in my previous post. If you have an external bypass, you should manually run water thru the heater at least weekly for 5 minutes or so.