New Starter Maintenance Confusion

[mgtfp]

thanks for the links - so on the app if I read correctly - if my output in 24 hrs is 3.6, running at 60% for 8 hours say a target of FC 4. I need to run pump for 2.75 hours at 60% . Is that right ? Is that additional or only ? Big difference ...

You have to create enough chlorine to replace the chlorine you are loosing throughout the day by UV-decay and by bather load (assuming no other chlorine eaters like algae).

EDIT: And if you want to get to a higher level and stay there, then you have to create what's required for that increase plus the expected dayly losses. Usually it's easier to adjust the level by adding liquid chlorine, and use the SWG only to maintain the target. END-EDIT

UV-loss is a percentage of the FC-level. For me in Melbourne with a CYA of 80ppm, it's ( depending on time of year and cloud coverage), up to about 20%. So, if my FC was 6ppm, I'd loose about 1.2ppm per day to UV. For you on Brisbane, it might be more like 25%, and with your lower CYA even more.

FC-loss by bathers depends on the number of swimmers and the time they're in. All the sweat and other body fluids will get oxidized by chlorine. With higher chlorine that will go faster, but the absolute loss is not depending on the FC level - in the worst case until all chlorine has been used.

I run my FC a bit higher, around 8-9ppm to have more leeway, and on a day with no swimming, I might have to generate about 1.5ppm to keep FC constant, with my son having a couple of friends over it might be more like 2-3ppm.

With your chlorinator and your pool volume (and your current 60% setting), I had to run the SWG for 3.25 hours on a day with 1.5ppm usage, or 6.5 hours on a day with 3ppm usage.

In practice, I set my SWG somewhere in the middle to ensure that that my FC stays over the course of a week more or less constant. That's why I like to keep my FC a bit higher to have some buffer for the days when I need more. If after 2 days like that, my FC went down to let's say 5ppm, then I will loose less chlorine the next day (because 20% of 5ppm is less than 20% of 8ppm), so it will get higher again. Should there be no swimmers at all, FC will creep up a bit, but then the UV loss will get smaller (I just edited that, I first wrote higher which is wrong), so the creep will slow down. If I get get a cloudy weather streak, or a very sunny week with lots of swimmers, I might have to adjust a bit. But hey, it's Melbourne, I usually get all 4 seasons within a week, and working on an average seems to work well for me.

Most important is to never ever let your FC dip below the min for your CYA, or you will risk an algae bloom. On the high side, you can safely swim up to SLAM level. It makes no sense to regularly target such high levels, as your UV-losses will be unnecessarily high, your SWG had to work harder and consequently have a reduced life time. But apart from that, there's no problem with swimming at SLAM-FC.

But there a problems with letting FC drop below min-FC: You risk an algae bloom, which will dramatically increase your FC-usage, letting FC drop down to 0ppm, which means that bacteria won't be killed anymore, and the pool will eventually turn bright green.

Therefore, find a target that works for you. Usually it's best to get to your target by adding liquid chlorine (amount to be calculated with PoolMath), and then maintain the daily losses with your SWG.

 

[mgtfp]

One thing to add: In my case, I like to run the pump throughout the day, about 10-11 hours, because I get lots and lots of leaves and debris blown into the pool. Only way to stay on top of that is to keep skimming (or a cover, but I prefer to look at a clean pool rather than a dirty cover). So I adjust my SWG accordingly, I am usually way below 100%.

 

[Scollops]

mgtfp- comprehensive details this is great actually never connected the dots and loss. Thank you

Just ordered my test kit, I want to see the CYA level given the loss I currently have . Thinking I need to keep a calc sheet until I get used to it to get the balance.

Sounds like I just bulk buy liquid chlorine and just reduce my swg to maintenance. Silly question but what is the liquid chlorine% thinking how I calculate when using pool math ? Pool shops only list the 130g/l stats no percentage on the containers.

 

[CRAD_oz]

130g/L is 13%. You can type in the % you have in the Bleach Percentage box in "Effects of adding"

 

[aussieta]

Sounds like I just bulk buy liquid chlorine and just reduce my swg to maintenanc

i would leave your swg settings as they are for now
you really dont want to drop under minimum, i add a little to the minimum to give me a buffer
if you test daily, you will notice a trend
fc should be fairly stable, but is dependent on so many issues
bather load, children getting out to use the toilet, level of shade during the day
my pool ,full sun usually a couple of people in it, cya at 70ppm i add 3ppm fc daily
somedays tests a little higher than target, but more importantly never drops below minimum
usually around 8ppm fc

 

[mknauss]

Thinking I need to keep a calc sheet

The PoolMath app stores the data for you. FYI

 

[mgtfp]

Sounds like I just bulk buy liquid chlorine and just reduce my swg to maintenance

Once you got it all dialled in and you are at your target level, you shouldn't need much liquid chlorine. Depending on what the tests say once you have your kit, you might need a larger amount for a SLAM, we'll see...

After that and when everything is running smoothly, it's always good to have some liquid around for a quick adjustment when required, but the SWG should have you mostly covered. You also don't want to have too much around, as liquid chlorine looses its strength over time.

And well done on ordering the CCL kit

 

[Scollops]

Once you got it all dialled in and you are at your target level, you shouldn't need much liquid chlorine. Depending on what the tests say once you have your kit, you might need a larger amount for a SLAM, we'll see...

After that and when everything is running smoothly, it's always good to have some liquid around for a quick adjustment when required, but the SWG should have you mostly covered. You also don't want to have too much around, as liquid chlorine looses its strength over time.

And well done on ordering the CCL kit

Thanks everyone for the guidance much appreciated. With the little changes today my pool looks very clear, no haze . No get the kit and see how we go.

Again thanks everyone.

 

[Scollops]

Hi all, just waiting for my test kit from CCL. Just wanted to check the running order of testing and when ?

CYA - Full Sun
FAS-DPD evening after chemicals
OCLT before sun rises following morning

Slam or no slam
Then other tests ?

 

[mknauss]

Extended Test Kit Directions Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

You would do the FAS-DPD prior to adding any chemicals. Do it the same time each day. Preferably right before your SWCG starts adding chlorine to your pool each day.

 

[Scollops]

Received my Test Kit appreciate guidance on next steps.

water is crystal clear
CYA- 35
FC - 6
CC - 0
PH - 7.6
TA - 50

My Swg running 10hrs at 55% so output about 4.1. I did add 2 litres of liquid chlorine last week just airing on side of caution for my test kit.

I did confidence test a couple of times for CYA always around 35-33. FC was consistent.

Interesting my CA is so low given shop reported 58.

 

[mknauss]

I assume your CA is really CYA. Round up to 40 ppm.
Otherwise no immediate issues.
See Recommended Levels

 

[Scollops]

I assume your CA is really CYA. Round up to 40 ppm.
Otherwise no immediate issues.
See Recommended Levels

Apologies yes updated - so based on levels I should be looking at 60-80 CYA for SWG, bump up the TA all within recommended guidelines ?

 

[mknauss]

I would suggest getting your CYA to 70 ppm as that will protect your chlorine better and let you run the SWCG at lower generation rates.
The TA can be left alone. Only raise it if you fall below 50 ppm or your pH becomes unstable.

 

[Scollops]

I would suggest getting your CYA to 70 ppm as that will protect your chlorine better and let you run the SWCG at lower generation rates.
The TA can be left alone. Only raise it if you fall below 50 ppm or your pH becomes unstable.

thank you mknauss

 

[mgtfp]

Doesn't look too bad, your water. As Marty said, bump up the CYA, apart from that pretty good. You can go in two steps if you want to, first add enough to get to 60ppm. That gives you you an opportunity to check that the recommended amount from PoolMath really is right (bit of a sanity check for your pool volume), and allows you to get more experience with the test. Then add the final 10ppm.

Chlorine looks good, close to where you want to be with your target CYA.

If you want to be sure, you can run an OCLT, but I'd say the lowish CYA explains your troubles keeping up with chlorine generation.

I'm not surprised that your results differ from the shop testing...

 

[Scollops]

thank you mknauss

Quick question regards SWG, I have mixed thoughts on pump running and output. Is there a basic guidance ? Currently reduced to 10 hours a day a 25% should be about 1.9 output for daily loss if I am holding at 6 FC.

So is it recommended to reduce pump running altogether or reduce swg output over less hours and keep to 10 hrs? Just thinking about general water filtering and cleaning. I don’t get much leaves thankfully - mainly dust and pollen I think.

 

[mknauss]

How long do you need to run the pump to skim the surface? Once you have met your chlorine generation time, then it is how long it takes to skim the surface.

 

[mgtfp]

In summer, I get tons of leaves, dust, pollen and other debris blown into the pool, I kind of have to run the pump throughout the day so I can jump into the pool whenever I want without a major clean-up first - my pump run time is skimming driven rather than chlorine generation driven.

In the end, I settled around 10 hours that I run the pump with two short breaks from morning until evening. Like that, one bar in my SWG settings (I have 8 bars, so I can adjust my chlorine production in steps of 1/8 = 12.5%) corresponds to about 0.5ppm in FC, which I find a reasonable quantisation for FC-adjustments without fiddling with the run time.

In winter, I don't get as many leaves and I don't swim anyway, but I keep the pool open. Then, I reduce the pump run time drastically. I need max. about 0.5ppm of chlorine in winter, don't need much run time for that, but I still like to run the pump for a few hours to keep the pool clean.

 

[Scollops]

Interesting I actually turned down the RPM of the pump running 10hrs to 1250 - Maybe makes sense to run a couple of hours back at normal level 1450-1900 for quicker skim.