Pool quotes

[gingrbredman]

16,000 gallons of water

Are you sure about the gallons for the 14x30?
We looked at this FB model when we were getting quotes and thought I saw it was around 11k gallons. I’m not sure of the Hayward brands, but doubling that would get you around 22k gallons capacity generator.

 

[uvavi8r]

@Liz315 have you initiated your build yet? We did go up a pool size (to Elegance 27)...I am just curious as to what folks are seeing as far as build times.

 

[Liz315]

I did just give a deposit and I haven’t heard about install estimate yet. I spoke to leisure the other day and he said they are producing shells as quickly as a few weeks, install delays are typically pool installers all being backed up and overwhelmed with the amount of pools they have on their schedules to install.

 

[uvavi8r]

I did just give a deposit and I haven’t heard about install estimate yet. I spoke to leisure the other day and he said they are producing shells as quickly as a few weeks, install delays are typically pool installers all being backed up and overwhelmed with the amount of pools they have on their schedules to install.

Awesome...we changed our pool layout (in the back yard) and it allowed us to go slightly larger. We are probably a week away from putting down the deposit...I am just concerned that we are going to be in late December timeframe for the install...not optimal. The longest part of the process in my area is the permitting, we will see.

Have they done any work with you on plumbing and lighting layout in the pool? If so, would you be willing to share...TIA. Also, I emailed them and asked about getting a "color chip" of the color we are considering, did you get anything like that or just go off the images online?

 

[Liz315]

I can definitely share that. I asked for the lighting to face away from direct view, a tip leisure gave me so we aren’t staring into bright lights when looking out at the pool so we will have them all on the side Of the steps. Plumbing I’m not sure about we just made sure it’s all 2” rigid plumbing. We have a modern house so I knew I wanted the granite grey this way the water is more of a turquoise. The pool builder has swatches with him though and it’s beautiful. I was very tempted to do the dark almost black color but got nervous because I wanted to see it in person and they don’t have any in my area. I’d suggest thinking of the color water you want to help decide.

 

[bmoreswim]

new pool build. This is my first pool so I have no clue what I’m doing besides what I have read on this forum.

DEFINITE KNOWNS:
-leisure pools, elegance 30’ in graphite grey
- 14x30” fiberglass pool rectangular (NO SPA)
- 16,000 gallons of water
- salt water system (Hayward aquabrite 925)
- gas heater (Hayward H-series 250 BTU)


- 330 cartridge filter
- 2” rigid plumbing pipe
- Hayward brand equipment is what the builder uses

QUESTIONS:
1. Based on the above info what size type pump should I get? Currently he has a 2HP pump but I have read it should not be oversized because it can overwhelm the system and cost more than it needs to to run. However the plumbing is 2” and the filter is oversized for the pool so that shouldn’t matter correct. At one point I thought about a variable speed pump but read it’s not good for a salt system pool or one with a heater since it needs to run at full speed anyway for those two things to work, plus my pool guy doesn’t like that they are more complicated. So then I’m thinking I should be fine with the regular pump, but should I go with the 2 HP? The pool guy likes it bigger to handle if there is ever an algae problem or something like that in the pool so it can be rectified quicker since it’s pumping more in a shorter period. Or should I do a 1.5 HP because it will cost less to run but run longer not leaving the water stagnant for too long. Will 1.5 HP cause any problems with the swg or the heater not being able to perform properly.

2. what Salt water generator should I ask for to make sure it’s able to produce enough chlorine? I read you should double the volume of ur pool so instead of 16,000 I should go with more than 32,000. Any suggestion for a specific model? He currently has in contract for Hayward Aquabrite 925.

3. does the gas heater Hayward h-series 250 BTU look ok?

I’m not looking for the best most expensive system. I’m looking for an easy to maintain pool that still keeps things simple.

thanks,
Liz

Hi Liz -

I thought some of the PB's thoughts were an excellent example of what we see very often in the pool industry. PB's that are not up to speed on things. They like to do things one way and not adapt. Sometimes you just have to let them know what you want and live with their belly-aching. There are so many things inaccurate in your item #1 above. First is almost no one benefits from having a single speed pump (some really simple non-SWCG and non-heater pools can). They are loud and inefficient. Neither SWCG's nor heaters benefit from having pumps run at high. In fact its the opposite, with both of them often requiring longer run times with lower flow. VS pumps aren't complicated, they are modern and efficient. His comments regarding algae and pump size are just ridiculous. There is almost zero relationship. Selling you equipment based on how quickly it will clear up algae is non-sensical.

For SWCG, the name of your product is Hayward AquaRite (not Aquabright, which is concidentally the name of a pool plaster). The AquaRite is rated for 25K gallons. We say a SWCG should be rated for 2x the pool volume. The caveat to that is if you live in the northern half of the country (many fewer pools thus our advice), you can get away with a somewhat smaller SWCG. For example, mine is 1.67x and in MD and I don't have to run my pool more than 10 hours in peak summer sun/heat. For you, 25K/16K = 1.56x. That's still OK being in NJ, but much closer to 1 and you'd want to upsize to the 40K version, 940. The issue becomes that in order to produce enough chlorine from your SWCG, you may approach 12 hours of running your pump per day during the peak period of summer. This may be more than you would otherwise need to run your pump, and therefore be causing you extra pump expense. However, if you have a VS pump, running a pump on a lower RPM is only using about 300 watts (or less) per hour. Or well under a $1 a day.

 

[Liz315]

Thanks, this is all extremely helpful for someone like me who doesn’t know much about it. What about what people say able having to run the pump fast enough to open the valve for salt water chlorination to even run. I’m sure I’m not using the right terminology hopefully you can understand what I’m asking.
Also, will I need an automation system for them To all work together? I’m hoping to not as I sense it getting even more difficult

 

[Liz315]

Hi Liz -

I thought some of the PB's thoughts were an excellent example of what we see very often in the pool industry. PB's that are not up to speed on things. They like to do things one way and not adapt. Sometimes you just have to let them know what you want and live with their belly-aching. There are so many things inaccurate in your item #1 above. First is almost no one benefits from having a single speed pump (some really simple non-SWCG and non-heater pools can). They are loud and inefficient. Neither SWCG's nor heaters benefit from having pumps run at high. In fact its the opposite, with both of them often requiring longer run times with lower flow. VS pumps aren't complicated, they are modern and efficient. His comments regarding algae and pump size are just ridiculous. There is almost zero relationship. Selling you equipment based on how quickly it will clear up algae is non-sensical.

For SWCG, the name of your product is Hayward AquaRite (not Aquabright, which is concidentally the name of a pool plaster). The AquaRite is rated for 25K gallons. We say a SWCG should be rated for 2x the pool volume. The caveat to that is if you live in the northern half of the country (many fewer pools thus our advice), you can get away with a somewhat smaller SWCG. For example, mine is 1.67x and in MD and I don't have to run my pool more than 10 hours in peak summer sun/heat. For you, 25K/16K = 1.56x. That's still OK being in NJ, but much closer to 1 and you'd want to upsize to the 40K version, 940. The issue becomes that in order to produce enough chlorine from your SWCG, you may approach 12 hours of running your pump per day during the peak period of summer. This may be more than you would otherwise need to run your pump, and therefore be causing you extra pump expense. However, if you have a VS pump, running a pump on a lower RPM is only using about 300 watts (or less) per hour. Or well under a $1 a day.

So I’m learning my pool is closer to 12,000 gallons (rectangular 14x30’ 4 ft shallow end 5’9” deepend) So salt system should be plenty. So what I was incorrectly talking about above was the Pump needing to run at a high flow rate to close the salt system flow switch in order to generate Chlorine. Is this a concern? I’m reading an example of a variable speed run schedule for a pool with a gas heater and salt system would be:
2 hrs at full rpm for the heater to run
10 hrs at 2,000 rpm for salt system
- do u know the minimum flow rate required for the aquarite 925?
12 hrs at a low speed (1,000) for regular filtering. That seems high for low?

would that run schedule be efficient or cost a fortune to run like that compared to just going with a 1.5 HP single speed pump that I wouldn’t need to worry about as much?

 

[bmoreswim]

You are doing very well. It’s called a flow switch for the SWCG but it opens at a very low flow relative to what a VS pump can provide. You will not need (be required to have) automation for a VS pump, SWCG and heater. That said, it can be helpful. But I don’t have specifics there but we can easily grab someone who does.

 

[Liz315]

You are doing very well. It’s called a flow switch for the SWCG but it opens at a very low flow relative to what a VS pump can provide. You will not need (be required to have) automation for a VS pump, SWCG and heater. That said, it can be helpful. But I don’t have specifics there but we can easily grab someone who does.

This is the link I got my information from maybe it’s old and applied more to when they just come out and they have improved.

I’m sure this will all make more senseonce I actually work with a pool right now I have zero reference point and I just get too nervous I’m going to pick the wrong equipment or pick something I’m not going to be able to use myself because it’s over my head.

 

[Liz315]

This is the link I got my information from maybe it’s old and applied more to when they just come out and they have improved.

I’m sure this will all make more senseonce I actually work with a pool right now I have zero reference point and I just get too nervous I’m going to pick the wrong equipment or pick something I’m not going to be able to use myself because it’s over my head.

Variable Speed Pump Schedule

www.swimmingpoolsteve.com

 

[bmoreswim]

First I’m going to make a correction to my statement above regarding flow rates for heaters. They are somewhat more efficient at higher flow rates. However that is offset to varying degrees by less pump electricity usage.

NJ has moderately high electricity costs. Running a single speed pump for 10-12 hours a day will be expensive. You will gain much more efficiency by using a minimum a 2-speed or a VS. Running a moderate flow rate while the heater runs would be better, then throttling back for the SWCG. No other general running is needed after that if you are happy with the skimming. Pump run time is all a bit of owner requirements for clarity, FC generation and skimming, and then electricity cost balancing.

 

[bmoreswim]

@mknauss Do you have a thought on using/not using automation for a heater/SWCG pool? And then pump selection and scheduling for the same?

 

[Liz315]

So my husband had several people tell him not to do fiberglass since we can get a gunite pool for the same price. can anyone provide their input for our install area (northeast: south jersey). I know fiberglass people will say fiberglass is easier to maintain and cost less in the long term since you spend less on chemicals with fiberglass being non porous and you have to replaster and acid wash the concrete every so often. Concrete people say concrete is better and that fiberglass gel coatings need to be redone every 4 years.

What’s best for our application:
1. New Jersey (cold winters)
2. I found a fiberglass shell I love so those limitations are not an issue
3. Salt system (we are doing one so will this be ok with gunite or will it corrode the concrete?
4. Gas heater (will either retain heat better)
5. Will concrete make chemicals harder to maintain costing a lot more per season) also heard you have to brush the walls each week for algae.
6. Do u really have to do a redo the gel coat on fiberglass?
7. How often do you have to get gunite professionally cleaned? How often do you have to redo the plaster?
8. If price is the same and we seriously will make the gunite look like the fiberglass shell shape Because we like it so much which do we choose?
9. Do fiberglass pop up or is this a myth? My husband is very concerned about this.
We would have a hydrostatic system
10. Anything else we should compare?

thanks,

liz

 

[uvavi8r]

So my husband had several people tell him not to do fiberglass since we can get a gunite pool for the same price. can anyone provide their input for our install area (northeast: south jersey). I know fiberglass people will say fiberglass is easier to maintain and cost less in the long term since you spend less on chemicals with fiberglass being non porous and you have to replaster and acid wash the concrete every so often. Concrete people say concrete is better and that fiberglass gel coatings need to be redone every 4 years.

What’s best for our application:
1. New Jersey (cold winters)
2. I found a fiberglass shell I love so those limitations are not an issue
3. Salt system (we are doing one so will this be ok with gunite or will it corrode the concrete?
4. Gas heater (will either retain heat better)
5. Will concrete make chemicals harder to maintain costing a lot more per season) also heard you have to brush the walls each week for algae.
6. Do u really have to do a redo the gel coat on fiberglass?
7. How often do you have to get gunite professionally cleaned? How often do you have to redo the plaster?
8. If price is the same and we seriously will make the gunite look like the fiberglass shell shape Because we like it so much which do we choose?
9. Do fiberglass pop up or is this a myth? My husband is very concerned about this.
We would have a hydrostatic system
10. Anything else we should compare?

thanks,

liz

I would be surprised if you can get gunite shot for the same price as a fiberglass pool...if you have a quote, go back and look at it carefully. In my area NoVA (DC suburbs) gunite was almost double for a 14 x 28 rectangle...I imagine some of it has to do with "COVID" pricing in the area as there was a significant demand increase. My parents have a gunite pool with a SWG...issues they have had have been a crack in the plaster, and calcium deposits in the pools (I am not sure if this is just from improper chemical balancing or "it just happens"). My decision to go with fiberglass vs gunite was a significant cost savings on installation (our gunite estimates were basically the same design as the fiberglass) and the reduced maintenance cost for the shell. In the end, I think it is all about your installer...I have seen bad gunite and bad fiberglass...

If you haven't checked out River Pools videos (River Pools), I suggest you give them a look...they do a great job at going through and explaining what could go wrong and mitigation techniques.

My general contractor said we should ONLY go fiberglass...it makes it easier to remove when we get tired of it...