My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

funandsun

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Bronze Supporter
Jun 11, 2017
758
Bloomington Indiana
Yeah, 8 days to go? Keep the slam levels right, thing is for both you and me, we have sand filters and they are the slowest to clean up, so adding DE should/will help, how much? i dont know.. what I would ask you to do is.. take a pic every day...so we can see how it works.

I have been putting fiber clear in my sand filter for the last 2 days and am doing the same thing.. taking a pic each morning.. here are my pics. will give us and others some real world comparisons.


All Pictures taken within 15mins of same time each day. Daughter on school bus, coffee in hand, photo of pool.

May 2nd
5_2_2018.jpg

May 3rd
5_3_2018.jpg

Between May 3 and May 9 was just Sand Filter and not Fully in SLAM due to needed pH adjustment I had to correct. I got excited, had ramped up FC, for some reason tested my pH while at FC 15, corrected pH, then realized I just corrected a reading that was probably false due to high FC, so then I had to let the FC cool back down during which time I ran out of reagent for FC... yeah, not been very smooth but I am probably not freaking out because I know why I am doing what I am doing and I know what I am doing works.

May 9.. Day 1 of my Fiber Clear Challenge and Full SLAM FC Levels with pH in check
5_9_2018.jpg

May 10 Day 2 of my Fiber Clear Challenge
5_10_2018.jpg
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Okay, so you already had a nice aqua blue going into the Fiber Clear part of the process. Makes me a little nervous that I still have a very long way to go ...

What is the Fiber Clear regimen?
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

for my 18 round sand filter it is 3/4 of a cup (16 oz) on the bag, I put in 1 cup and it is applied same way as DE. I put mine in my 5gal bucket, swirl it up and then pour that into the skimmer.

Yes, once I got my debris out and got the first rounds of chlorine in the water, it went aqua pretty quick and lightened up a lot. But that is mostly because we wanted the pool open this year. Previous years I put it off as long as possible, I don't know anyone who skips into a butt kicking contest knowing it's their butt that's gonna get kicked. lol

But this year, armed to the teeth and ready to tame the beast again, What are we waiting on is what I am asking! HA!


I did not get the Fiber Clear until well past clear and blue last season, and this season it seemed like it was taking forever, May 2 to May 9 and that was all I got? Oh come on, I know I need POP but I gotta be able to do better than this! So I figured you know, lets put this Fiber Clear to a real world FunandSun test which is typically we either break it or make it.

Then with you and DE I thought this could be fun, lets see how they do. You are using the fully approved DE approach, I am a bit on the fringe with this Fiber Clear but willing to sacrifice for the better of all. I know, what a guy! lol

So, I am adding 1 cup every backwash and find that I am backwashing 1 time every 8 hours. Last year according to my notes and pictures, it took me almost 25 days to go from Swamp to great. So, I hoping to do better than that since I started off with a pool in better condition this year. We will see.
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Great info! This should be fun over the next week or 10 days. It took you 25 days roughly last year? I'm about 18 days in, give or take. After 10 days last year, I was way ahead of where I am now, like very aqua and seeing all the way to the bottom, though still cloudy.

As soon as I got home from work, I put a half cup of DE into the skimmer, in two batches. Within 20 minutes, my pressure spiked from about 16.5 to 25, so I feared I added too much DE. 16.5 is my baseline after a good backwash. Anyway, I backwashed and added another quarter cup of DE as well as the hairnet skimmer sock. Gonna give that a bit to settle in the filter while I put my son to bed. After that I'll check the pressure and maybe add another 1/8 cup DE to see if that changes the pressure.

Onward!
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

With a cloudy pool, your pressure will go up after adding DE, a little bit by the DE itself, but largely by the smaller stuff it's filtering. In case you didn't know, when you backwash, all that DE gets flushed out and more needs to be added.
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

That makes sense, Lightmaster. I did know backwashing cleared out DE, but I wasn't expecting the sudden spike in pressure to be compounded. After the first round of DE and a backwash, though, my second round of DE isn't spiking the pressure much at all. I managed to add just a bit less the second round to stabilize pressure around 18. I'll do another check right before bed to make sure I don't need to backwash again before turning in for the night.
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Madyogi,

a poster named Robert has been pounding the table on this triple filter idea where I guess others have done it with good success. It filters down to 5microns. If you search "duda" you will land on some threads.

I just ordered 3 of these, should be here next week... Make it or Break it! lol
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Right, I actually ordered a duda yesterday or the day before. Should be here by Monday at the latest. I don't yet have an elbow to get it attached to my return. Could I just get something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX1105Z4-2-Inch-Elbow-Adapter/dp/B004VJSPOO/

I was planning to attach it to the last return in the deep end, where there is currently an eyeball. I assume the threading on returns are pretty standard, and that it's easy to swap out components like this?
 

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My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Yes an elbow will have the same size threading as an eyeball jet. Just don't overtighten the elbow. Seat it and then back it off a turn, and yes, that is the Hayward elbow in the link above. Don't forget a hose clamp. When you receive the bag cut the ring off, and attach the bag to the Elbow with a hose clamp. You can even get these bags down to one micron but I don't know how well water will pass through and I haven't tried it with one micron yet.
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Here is a picture of mine

- - - Updated - - -

Clearing out all the algae and pollen

- - - Updated - - -

If you have gunk in your pool the bag is going to load up fast at 5 Micron and create back pressure, so watch your pressure every hour when using it. Try not to exceed 20 psi or you're going to do damage to your pump and cartridge filter if you exceed 20 psi. Once my pool is fairly clear but yet cloudy blue, my pressure will only go from 10 psi clean starting pressure to maybe about 14 to 16 psi and will run for 12 hours without creating too much back pressure. You also have to keep in mind my personal circumstances I have a lot of debris since I'm next to the woods, and my pump is a 1.5 horsepower motor so it filters water very quickly, and violently, unless I throttle the intake and the return to slow down the water flow since my pump only has one speed.

Circumstances may vary depending on setup and pool conditions with the use of this bag but it will get you cleared five Micron just as well as using diatomaceous earth or DE.
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Robert man, you got in my head about this and I am excited to try it out. I will take pics daily once I install it so we can all see the progress.

Madyogi, I swept the pool this morning and am on my 2nd backwash already since 8am, pressure really shot up good and I noticed in this mornings pic, prior to sweeping, I could really make out my 4th step. pitiful but hopeful! lol

I think this duda will help you to meet your timeline.. did you only order 1?
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Yep, only ordered one. I might be kicking myself over that late next week, because I don't have a pressure washer to clean out debris. Speaking of pressure, I'm a little worried I need to dial down my DE during this process, or at least understand the tolerable pressure limits a bit better.

My resting pressure after backwashing is roughly 17.5. The needle bounces around, so pinpointing an exact line is nearly impossible.

At lunch, I backwashed, then I added 1 cup of DE very judiciously, and that got the pressure up to 19-ish. Then I added my hairnet skimmer sock, and it went up to 20-ish, bobbing slightly above that. Now I'm at working reading your post about anything above 20 damaging my equipment, and I'm freaking out a bit.

Perhaps I'm adding too much DE? If I dial it back to 1/2 cup, the needle barely moves, so maybe stop at 2/3 or 3/4 ... Also, should I observe the rule to backwash after 25% increase from normal baseline during this process, or figure the baseline to be 20-ish and wait for it to get to 24 or 25 before backwashing?
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

According to my hayward S180T owners manual.... "When the pressure gauge reading is 8-10 PSI (0.55-0.69BAR) higher than the initial "clean" pressure you noted, it is
time to backwash (clean) the filter".

So for me, clean is around 8psi, I bump 1psi with my CF, so 9 now, and I have been cleaning around 13-15psi. Apparently I could "according to the mfr" go to 18psi. I won't but I could, it also says for mine that it has a Max working pressure of 50psi. Again, no, I won't and have no idea what the bad things would be from that if any, but structurally it is capable.

Hayward PSI.jpg


Do you know your model number? You can look it up, I found all the manuals in PDF for my equipment online and have it on my pc. (nerd)

Robert also mentions about cleaning it with warm/hot water. But yes, only 1 and it will probably fill up fast.

I am on my 4th backwash and recharge today. I am excited to see the morning pic of the pool based on what I have gotten out today. I am getting about 2 hours between backwashes at the current rate today.

 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Yeah I'm sorry, I had a feeling I was going to freak everyone out with that above 20 psi warning. No worries though...It won't cause any significant immediate damage. I only heed the warning because I can hear my motor and impeller straining to circulate at a faster rate, but can't because of the back pressure. I have absolutely 0 experience with sand and de filtration systems. As the pool I inherited when I bought our home 6 years ago made me a first time pool owner. I have no idea how long the previous owner had this pump for or how long it was service for, but she's been going strong every year with no issues. I understand all the filtration methods and how and what equipment uses them, but for my pool its exclusively cartridge filter. The only reason why I heeded that warning is because I've heard here at TFP that you shouldn't let cartridge filters get up to 25-30 psi because it may damage the pleats. Myself being involved in the electrical and solar trades, when I listen to the strain that's being placed on the impeller on the motor, although it hasn't been proven as of yet, I just suspect and assume that eventually with prolonged use like several years of continually operating at 30 psi that it will overheat the brushes and coils and wear down the motor with time and repeated prolonged use operating it like that.

For all I know tolerances and back pressure could be different with a Sand Filtration or DE filtration system, so just as a rule of thumb I recommend to keep the back pressure below 20 psi. Not trying to scare anyone here into not utilizing a good proven method in filtration. You should be fine using the bag the and the skimmer sock. Just do your diligence with it that's all. If your pool is cloudy blue and you don't have as much Gunk to filter out, you should be running around 12 to 14 PSI with the duda bag and the skimmer sock. If your pool is green and you have more algae to filter out then it will hit 20 psi which is still fairly safe. Again because I only have a one speed pump, what I do to alleviate back pressure is I throttle back to return ball check valve to 1/4 turn off, and I do the same for the inlet ball check valve to even out the pressure. The pump and filter filters slower like this, but that's okay too because when you're trapping really fine sediment you want the filtrate a little bit slower anyway, so it catches a little more gunk each time.

Again just a rule of thumb and guideline if your filtering out a lot of green Gunk just check it every hour and check the PSI every hour and keep cleaning and rinsing the sock and the bag. Once your pool clears it should maintenance itself at 12-14 psi with the bag and skimmer sock. When I just use my skimmer sock without the bag I usually run about 9 to 10 PSI clean pressure.

The theory behind filtration, any filtration whether it be Sand, DE, or Cartridge is that you want it to load up a little bit and run it a little dirty so it can filter out the finer particles. The side effects is as the secondary filters such as your skimmer sock or duda bag loads up and filters out finer particles is that more back pressure is created. I guess the best way to explain this is. If I was to just run the skimmer sock eventually it will get clogged with debris if the debris is floating around in the pool. So what happens is it creates a negative pressure, vaccum, or a higher amount of suction on the skimmer basket itself which is plastic. Over the time and course of a season I have cracked the ring on my skimmer baskets if I let my skimmer sock load up too much. No big deal I keep a couple of extra handy. They are only 8 bucks. Because my Duda bag is post pump, and not pre pump like the skimmer basket. The duda bag is on the return jet post pump and cartridge filter. When it loads up it creates positive pressure, so you have to continuously clean the secondary filters meaning the skimmer sock and the bag. Once your pool is as clear as glass, and you no longer see any residue on your skimmer sock or your duda bag, you are crystal sparkling clear. From there on out you only have to run the skimmer sock to prohibit frequent primary filter cleanings such as you're sand, DE, or cartridge. I only clean my cartridge twice a year or season. Once after I run the pool Crystal Clear with the bag and the skimmer sock, and then I clean it at the end of the season before I put it away for the winter.

Realistically, if I wanted to I could just eliminate the cartridge filter all together and just run the pool on The Duda bag. I use the Duda bag for polishing the water. Its like the skimmer sock filters at 40 micron, or whatever it is, the cartridge filter filters out of 10 micron, then The Duda bag filters out at 5 micron. So it really is over redundant filtration, but it gets me that clear as glass sparkling water. Once I am crystal clear I really no longer need the Duda bag. It's just handy for polish in the water when it looks dull and filtering out really fine algae, when and if I have it, that I would otherwise flocculant to the bottom of the pool, if I didn't have the bag. I hope this explains the relationship of things and a better understanding of how things work.

Here are some pictures of my setup for those who are visual learners.
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Thanks for the info, Robert! I wasn't terribly concerned about the pressure levels at 25 psi, but better safe than sorry. I'd rather not have to replace a motor.

I still wonder about my "tipping point" for DE (where pressure starts to rise more rapidly vs staying roughly 1-2 psi above baseline indefinitely), and whether or not that's more an indicator of legit effectiveness, or an indicator of having added too much ...
 
My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Good morning everyone!

madyogi, here is a pic from Day 1 or Fiber Clear Day 1 which is the morning I first added Fiber Clear and the 2nd is today which is starting Day 4 or Fiber Clear Day 4.

Fiber Clear Day 1 MAY 9
5_9_2018_FC1.jpg

Fiber Clear Day 4 MAY 12
5_12_2018_FC4.jpg

Getting better.
 

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