Help draining pool - siphon?

[ABC12]

So my CYA is high and I need to drain the pool. I have a "ball valve" by the pump where the water should drain that I can't figure out how to open? It won't twist and I'm scared to break it. (Pic below)

I have been trying to research how to siphon the water out since I don't need a full drain. Are there any videos or places to read how to do this for an in ground pool? All the videos I've seen have people with elevations and they place the exit of the tube lower than the inflow. I don't have that... Any tips? So far have only tried with my 2.5" tube, think garden hose is different?

Last resort is subpump

 

[Richard320]

Good call not forcing that valve. That type is notorious for sticking and breaking.

You are basically stuck buying or renting a submersible pump. Or replacing that valve, which looks like a lot of work since I don't see much pipe to cut.

 

[jobondur]

Take a wider pic so we can see the full system. Do you have a multiport? My take is you should fix it if you're a little bit handy. Otherwise every time you have a torrential downpour you're going to have to siphon. Fix it once instead of dealing with it forever....

Could he just take the drain plug out of the filter (provided its a large one) and run the system??? (Question for the experts on here)

 

[pookiesunshine]

Those pipes/valves that we can see in the original pic look like it's time to replace anyway. we cant see what else you have but if everything is that old, could break at any time. what good is a valve if you cant use it? you can probably add more pipeline and add in unions/valves. my original PB also left zero extra pipe at the pump inlet. i was able to add separate valves for skimmer and main drain where i had only a main drain valve before.

another recent post linked to amazon submersible pump for about $50; the local home depot rents a more powerful one for $41/day.

 

[duraleigh]

A multi-port would work ("waste" position) but my bet is OP doesn't have one. Filter drain is a good idea but you will lose your sand.

Submersible pump is easiest idea. Replacing valve with a new jandy is best but it may be more extensive than we can see.

 

[ABC12]

Here is bigger picture. Never worked with this piping before but open to learning.

Also no sand - cartridge filter

 

[Dirk]

Some things to consider:

Draining a pool can be harmful. There is the surrounding water table to consider (an empty pool can float right out of the ground) and there is the age of the pool surface to consider. Depending on how your water was cared for, and how old the finish is, sometimes it's only the weight of the water that is holding weakened plaster in place. Removing that weight can loosen up plaster and it will fail and/or blister, etc.

Does your pool have an overflow system? There are alternate methods for exchanging water that might solve for your siphoning challenge, as well as help protect your pool. You can use the tarp method, or even introduce new water at one location in your pool while it leaves the pool from another location. Neither method is as simple or economical as pumping it out, but both can be safer for your pool if done correctly, and get the exchange you're after...

By the way, what is that orange color? Was your PVC painted, and the paint is old? Or is that what old/sun-damaged PVC looks like? Looks like it needs a little (or maybe a lot?) of some TLC...

 

[pookiesunshine]

big picture definitely helps see what is going on. are those pipes painted? in first picture i thought the discoloration was UV deterioration; maybe not as old as i thought at first. if you try to open the valve and it breaks, the very minimum you could do to stop water flow would be to cap that discharge or add another valve on the discharge, and that would be only if the broken valve doesnt leak at the handle. If it leaks there, you will be replacing much of the stuff between the pump discharge and the filter inlet.

To answer the first question, the signs on the top of that valve indicate to open the valve, rotate it counter-clockwise.

submersible sounding better.

 

[Donldson]

Siphons only work when the exit of the pipe is lower than the level of the water in the pool. The water going through the pipe creates a vacuum that continues sucking the water in and allows it to flow upward from where it starts but only if it leaves the pipe lower than the water level. If the outflow is higher than the inflow then the water will just fall back in the pool. You will need a pump to make this work.

 

[jobondur]

For the discoloration - my bet is he has a sprinkler system and that is from his water, probably metals in it.

You could always take out your SWG and just let the water shoot out there - looks like some simple screw-type disconnects. You may want to put an elbow on it and try to run a hose out to the road/drain. Just make sure you set it to pull from the main drain only, otherwise when the water level drops below the skimmers, you'll just be drawing air and possibly burn up your pump.

 

[duraleigh]

That ball valve is probably ruined forever.....they do not last. I would disconnect the entire piping from the pump to the filter and remake it with a Jandy valve.

removing SWG will let it drain but you'll have to do it every time you need the valve.

 

[jobondur]

But long term, you should really fix it. All you need is two elbows, one tee, a coupler, a short section of pipe, the threaded piece that threads into the filter, and a new valve.

Cut it on that pipe section just after the coupler coming out of the pump (after the elbow). Add in another coupler, then elbow down, then tee out, then elbow into the fitting that screws into the filter. Make sure to screw the fitting into the filter first. And truthfully you'd be better starting at the filter and working your way up as you have more play at the top then at the bottom. Dry fit it first, mark it with a sharpie once it's all lined up, but remember when you put the glue on it that the pieces will go together a little more than they will when you dry fit them. Working with PVC is easy, but just remember that once you put the glue on the PVC and stick it together, it's NOT gonna move. So get everything lined up good and work methodically.

And leave a longer section of pipe leading into your new valve. That way if your new valve ever does this you can easily replace it. You don't want to have to do this again, do you???

 

[pookiesunshine]

if you replace the valve, consider adding a union between the filter and pump.

ps. jobondur, good thought on sprinkler. i can see the spray pattern now. if he was a little farther north i might think red clay.

 

[ABC12]

But long term, you should really fix it. All you need is two elbows, one tee, a coupler, a short section of pipe, the threaded piece that threads into the filter, and a new valve.

Cut it on that pipe section just after the coupler coming out of the pump (after the elbow). Add in another coupler, then elbow down, then tee out, then elbow into the fitting that screws into the filter. Make sure to screw the fitting into the filter first. And truthfully you'd be better starting at the filter and working your way up as you have more play at the top then at the bottom. Dry fit it first, mark it with a sharpie once it's all lined up, but remember when you put the glue on it that the pieces will go together a little more than they will when you dry fit them. Working with PVC is easy, but just remember that once you put the glue on the PVC and stick it together, it's NOT gonna move. So get everything lined up good and work methodically.

And leave a longer section of pipe leading into your new valve. That way if your new valve ever does this you can easily replace it. You don't want to have to do this again, do you???

Pipes are not painted. The discoloration is likely from my sprinkler system. Comes off with wet paper towel, you can see where I cleaned it when I made some markings on the pipes.

Any good tips/videos on how to work with PVC? Ive never done it before and from some of the language above, sounds confusing without seeing it.
If I don't feel comfortable who would I call to do this type of work?

 

[ABC12]

For the discoloration - my bet is he has a sprinkler system and that is from his water, probably metals in it.

You could always take out your SWG and just let the water shoot out there - looks like some simple screw-type disconnects. You may want to put an elbow on it and try to run a hose out to the road/drain. Just make sure you set it to pull from the main drain only, otherwise when the water level drops below the skimmers, you'll just be drawing air and possibly burn up your pump.

Coloring is from the sprinklers. Spot on

 

[jobondur]

YouTube is your friend, I pasted a link below that does a pretty good job. Don't let it intimidate you, it's not hard. Just take your time planning it out, dry-fit it, and don't go slow gluing (stuff dries fast). It's not so much glue as a chemical that essentially melts the plastic pieces together. If you still don't feel comfortable doing it, any handyman, plumber, or pool guy can do it.

How to Glue and Join PVC Plastic Pipe - YouTube

 

[MannyT]

Pipe color seems to be rust stains from a well sprinkler system. I don't know where the op is from but this is very common in south florida.

 

[ABC12]

if you replace the valve, consider adding a union between the filter and pump.

ps. jobondur, good thought on sprinkler. i can see the spray pattern now. if he was a little farther north i might think red clay.

Just starting research on PVC. what's a union? Same as a coupler?

 

[ABC12]

Cut it on that pipe section just after the coupler c

I don't own any saws (Power or handheld - as a new homeowner my tool box is growing slowly with each new project), is there an idea saw for PVC?

 

[Dirk]

Just starting research on PVC. what's a union? Same as a coupler?

A coupler is permanent, and glued onto the pipes it joins. A union can be taken apart by unscrewing, and uses gaskets to seal. You have three unions (at least) in your system. Two on each end of your SWG, and the third on the other side of that same U section. You can remove/replace your SWG by unscrewing those unions. The unions were recommended so that you could later take things apart without cutting into pipes. I don't like the o-rings that unions depend on. Others here, including pool contractors, swear they are a non-issue.

I don't own any saws (Power or handheld - as a new homeowner my tool box is growing slowly with each new project), is there an idea saw for PVC?

I'm not sure which kind of saw is ideal. PVC is best cut, not sawn, because the right PVC cutter won't leave any saw dust or rough edges. Here is the first google link I clicked that shows you what a PVC cutter looks like:

Best 5 PVC Pipe Cutters | Dengarden

Otherwise, a hacksaw would be a good addition to your kit, and would get through PVC. You'll have to de-burr the cut afterwards, like with sandpaper, and clean off as much of the resulting "dust" as possible, as it will otherwise end up somewhere else (filter, pool, SWG, etc).

The finer the blade you use, the smoother the cut, and the finer the dust. The courser the blade you use, the faster you'll get through the pipe. That's why PVC is cut...