Poured concrete pool leaking

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D

Di11on

0
Jul 25, 2017
6
France
Hi folks,

We got a number of quotes for a semi overground pool (50cm above ground). Because we thought the structure was more solid and enduring, we went for a poured concrete pool. We didn't have the budget for the best finish and rather than compromise we decided to just have a bare concrete finish with a view to having it tiled in a year or two.

This was presented to us as an option by the commercial guy - a bare concrete pool in tinted (dyed) water proof concrete. The commercial guy was telling us how great this stuff is - telling us how it the same stuff used for off-shore wind turbines and stuff.

It wasn't long after signing contracts that the contractor was backtracking on these promises - saying that customers don't like the look of the finish and he would offer us a good deal on tiling or a "free" decorative coating. We didn't want this because we knew we would have to re-do it after a couple of years and wanted instead to save for a more durable finish, i.e. the tiles. And if he felt that what he sold us wasn't fit for purpose, we would prefer a heavy discount on the tiling, even if this is down the line a little.

Now the project is close to completion. The pool has been filled but it is leaking quite substantially. The contractor cannot determine where the leak is but my conclusion is that the pool simply isn't waterproof and that he knew this would be the case and that what we were sold simply wasn't an option and he hoped all along to up-sell us the tiles.

So here's a question - have we been mislead about a waterproof bare concrete pool? Is there such a thing? Can anyone offer any advice?

Even if we do get the pool tiled, is it a problem that the underlying structure is porous?


 
Welcome to TFP!!:handwave:

The problem that you have, and have discovered is that concrete is not water tight, as a matter of fact water moves through it quite readily. So, with that being said I have never heard of a "waterproof bare concrete pool".

Normal pool construction in the US is for the shell to be a concrete/gunite shell with a water tight inner covering.

For now all I can see you doing is drainign the pool and finishing the inside with some water tight lining, even if it is as simple as some type of epoxy paint.
 
Thanks for the reply. This is just as I suspected. But aren't there additives you can get to add to concrete to make it water resistant?

Are tiles with epoxy joints considered an adequate water tight finish?

Thanks in advance
 
Di11on said:
Thanks for the reply. This is just as I suspected. But aren't there additives you can get to add to concrete to make it water resistant?

Are tiles with epoxy joints considered an adequate water tight finish?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Concrete is inherently porous. You can look at this document from National Precast Concrete Association for more information.

5 Rules of Watertightness - National Precast Concrete Association

As to tile/grout, I would assume it would have to be applied over a water tight material, like plaster.
 
Hello France!! Welcome to TFP!!

I am so sorry for what is going on with your pool. I don't have the technical advice you need, but I remember a build from Nicaragua documented on TFP. Maybe it will be a little help. All of the pictures have been lost because of photobucket no longer hosting pictures on forums. It is such a shame. But MrNica does a fair job giving explanations.

The link to his thread is below. Begin reading about post #104 and #105. He mentions protective coating on the concrete before tiling the pool. I hope it's enough detail to help you.

New pool build in Nicaragua - Page 6

I will try to find more information and let you know if I do.

Best of luck with your pool,
Suz
 
SuzfromTexas said:
This thread has some interesting international discussions about waterproofing for tile. It is an older thread, but take a look.

WaterProof options needed

One more pool build from Sweden:

Concrete pool up north
Click to expand...

Thanks Suz and other responders.

A lot of these discussions seem to be in relation to pools made from concrete block - where, I suppose, there would be a greater need to waterproof. Our pool is made from poured concrete. Is there the same need for a water proofing layer between the concrete and the tile (with epoxy joints)? The contractor is proposing the tile to perform the waterproofing function. Is he then, definitely in error? Or, could it be that because the poured concrete has some sort of additive to make it less porous, it then does not need another layer between the tile and the concrete?

I would like to be more sure before I make an issue of this,

Thanks in advance all!
 
Where is the pool leaking? Is it a joint or broken point? Or can you tell it is leaking through the concrete? Have you spoken with one of his customers who has used the same bare waterproof concrete? They may be able to answer some of your questions.

I have not heard of a concrete that is waterproof - not for residential pools. I would think it would be very expensive - economical only for high risk situations like offshore platforms paid for by wealthy oil companies.

You've just started this thread, so perhaps someone with more expertise will come along to answer your questions: were you mislead by the contractor? is there such a thing as this type of concrete?

I can answer your last question. It is not a problem that the underlying structure is porous. All of the pools in the U.S. built using concrete, gunite, or shotcrete are porous. We must apply some type of waterproof coating or material such as plaster, vinyl, fiberglass, or tile.

If you decide to go ahead and tile now, you will still need some waterproof substance between the concrete and tile as the above pool owners did on their porous concrete blocks before tiling.

If vinyl liners are used in France, that may be a less expensive option. I believe it would also be easier to convert to tile later on.
 

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Di11on, I think our posts passed each other in cyberspace. Lol!!

You will need some waterproofing under the tile. There are different methods including a waterproof paint and then a thinset to set the tiles, and of course a waterproof grout. I don't know the specific names of the materials, and I don't know the other options for waterproofing an all tile pool. I was hoping those links in my earlier posts would give you their different methods for waterproofing an entirely tiled pool.

Ask any questions you have! I'm sure others with more knowledge will come along to help you.

Take care,
Suz
 
I assume you have pipes coming through the pool walls for your pool water returns. Make sure the joint around the pipes is sealed properly so there is no leak. They may use hydraulic cement for this, but not sure. Check all areas where anything penetrates the pool shell.
 
Di11on said:
Thanks again Suz. To be clear - you are saying that there is no need to put anything between the concrete and the tile?
Click to expand...

My pool was recently built. They created the pool shell with shotcrete (wet-mix concrete). When the shell was done and cured, they attached the waterproof pool waterline tiles directly to the shotcrete shell with thinset (no other form of waterproofing on the shell). Then they grouted the waterline tiles with a waterproof grout. Then the shell was plastered with Hydrazzo to make it waterproof. Not saying this is absolutely correct, just telling you what my builder did, they've been building pools since the 1970s.

This might be helpful:
http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/media/60093643/poolsfountains_wp129_11-14.pdf
 
LapPoolMike said:
My pool was recently built. They created the pool shell with shotcrete (wet-mix concrete). When the shell was done and cured, they attached the waterproof pool waterline tiles directly to the shotcrete shell with thinset (no other form of waterproofing on the shell). Then they grouted the waterline tiles with a waterproof grout. Then the shell was plastered with Hydrazzo to make it waterproof. Not saying this is absolutely correct, just telling you what my builder did, they've been building pools since the 1970s.

This might be helpful:
http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/media/60093643/poolsfountains_wp129_11-14.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike! The million dollar question: how is your pool holding up so far? Do you have to top it up often?

Edit: I'm thinking that because the tiles are on the water line, it is not so important that they are perfectly water tight. This has given me the idea that I should really get them to make the pool water tight and be done with them. Paying to have it tiled would basically be paying to fix their mistake and I wouldn't be totally sure it's even water tight in the long run.
 
Di11on said:
Thanks Mike! The million dollar question: how is your pool holding up so far? Do you have to top it up often?

Edit: I'm thinking that because the tiles are on the water line, it is not so important that they are perfectly water tight. This has given me the idea that I should really get them to make the pool water tight and be done with them. Paying to have it tiled would basically be paying to fix their mistake and I wouldn't be totally sure it's even water tight in the long run.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a plan. What waterproofing are you going to ask the contractor to use? Plaster like Mike used (and why his shell isn't leaking), or something else?
 
Each tile itself is waterproof - assuming it isn't cracked. It's the joints that cause the issues. Waterproof grout works very well, but when you tile/grout an entire pool, it seems to me that you increase the chances for a failed grout joint and subsequent leak as the pool shell and grout age, flex, shrink, etc.

Have him do the typical tile water line and plaster below it. Tried and true - most commercial and many residential pools worldwide use this technique for a good reason; it works, looks good, and is relatively reliable and resilient. However, I'm frankly unsure how many of those are poured concrete or if that particular method would cause some issue with bonding of plaster. I doubt it, but have no first hand knowledge on the topic.

He has already steered you wrong; time for you to take the wheel. And if you don't have confidence in him, fire him and find someone else.

Dan
 
Thanks for the replies folks - if definitely seems like a risky option to have the pool tiled throughout with the watertightness below in question.

To answer some other questions - because the pool is partially overground we can see all the hose connections and they don't appear to be the cause. In fact the pool has drained beyond these and continues to drain. There are no obvious wet spots outside, so it just appears to be a continuous water loss. It could however be the pool drain at the bottom (is there an easy way to test this?)

Regarding plaster - it's difficult to see what an equivalent product in France would be. He has suggested this before: https://www.union-materiaux.fr/boutique/sika-enduit-piscine-seau-18kg.html. This is a water proof coating that seems to be more of a thick paint than a plaster but I'm not sure. From what I read on French forums, this usually needs to be reapplied every 2/3 years (4 if you're lucky). This is what we were trying to avoid with the tiles -we wanted something that would be relatively maintenance free. Does this look like what you would call a plaster?

Thanks again folks
 
This is such an interesting thread. I just refuse to believe gunite is the only possible material to make a waterproof pool! I have seen in Mexico beautiful pools made of a combination of brick, poured concrete and somehow they make them waterproof so there must be a way to make this work. Almost every pool is built that way and whoever has gone to a hotel or a resort in Mexico can see it is possible and the end result is beautiful as almost every single one of them has glass tile over them.

Gunite is also not completely waterproof, I've read a lot of threads here about water leaking from somewhere, so I guess the pool is going to leak if anything goes slightly wrong during construction?
 

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