Went to my local pool store to buy Liquid Chlorine and saw this....

[Mayorb]

When I'm asked about robots, I tell people to spend as much as they will on one, but don't expect more than 3-4 years out of it, and to assume an expensive repair along the way.
100% in favor of adding a line from the pad to the pool for cleaner use. Should be SOP.

 

[AUSpool]

Fancy electronic control gear, motors, charge points and control panels in a submersible device all protected from water egress by a couple of 10c seals - what could possibly go wrong. Maybe one day they will think of magnetic drives and wireless charging but until then I’m sticking with the KISS principle, a skimmer plate, hose, vac head and 20 minutes of avoiding every other job that needs doing around the house.

 

[Jimrahbe]

a skimmer plate, hose, vac head and 20 minutes of avoiding every other job that needs doing around the house.

Aus,

This is exactly why the cost of a robot is well worth it for me...

Every one has their own cost to fun ratio...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mdragger88]

Fancy electronic control gear, motors, charge points and control panels in a submersible device all protected from water egress by a couple of 10c seals - what could possibly go wrong. Maybe one day they will think of magnetic drives and wireless charging but until then I’m sticking with the KISS principle, a skimmer plate, hose, vac head and 20 minutes of avoiding every other job that needs doing around the house.

Lol I can hear it now.
“sorry honey but I have to clean the pool!”
Many have reported that it’s their “zen” time, much like mowing for some.
I personally enjoy regular vacuuming, the manual pool vacuuming where I cannot reach, not so much.

 

[Dirk]

Fancy electronic control gear, motors, charge points and control panels in a submersible device all protected from water egress by a couple of 10c seals - what could possibly go wrong. Maybe one day they will think of magnetic drives and wireless charging but until then...

If only they could put the motor above the water, say, at your equipment pad, and have all the timers and controls there, too. Then the vac would have no electronics in it at all, maybe just a couple wheels and a few gears. Ooh, ooh, I have it: if it connected with a hose, the thing could collect the dirt and leaves in a basket back by your pad, too! Then you could easily empty it out. It'd be small and light, as well. I did a quick sketch, this is what I'm envisioning...


But then, I'm a bit of a Rebel™ when it comes to crazy ideas!!

 

[Everett_88]

False equivalence.

They do the job they are manufactured to do but they are engineered for failure. It’s just the way the world works. Buy it, use it, toss it, rinse, lather, repeat …. What TFP ought to do is be very honest about their expense and life-cycle. I think TFP is more educated now about them … when they first started getting really popular pre-pandemic, they were manufactured with a bit more life in them and everyone that had one was a giant fan-boy. After a decade of learning, many will admit now that they are the most expensive option. As long as the end user is willing to accept that, then there is nothing wrong with them per se. Just go into the purchase with your eyes wide open and know that committing to the use of a robotic cleaner is the least cost-efficient way to clean a pool.

Help me better understand this one please. We are building a 16x30 VL pool and I thought I had read and understood pressure side cleaner was more expensive than robot to clean pool.

We have a dedicated line I asked to have run (1.5” sch 40) for a pressure cleaner in the future, planning to plumb it as a third return line for now.

I was looking at the Dolphins in the $800-$1000 range but have not bought anything yet.

Your comments are super interesting. What are you thoughts / experience with lifecycle costing of the pumps?

I’m not opposed to a pressure cleaner, just thought I understood robot was the better option?

Thanks in advance!

 

[AUSpool]

If only they could put the motor above the water, say, at your equipment pad, and have all the timers and controls there, too. Then the vac would have no electronics in it at all, maybe just a couple wheels and a few gears. Ooh, ooh, I have it: if it connected with a hose, the thing could collect the dirt and leaves in a basket back by your pad, too! Then you could easily empty it out. It's be small and light, as well. I did a quick sketch, this is what I'm envisioning...

View attachment 545847
But then, I'm a bit of a Rebel™ when it comes to crazy ideas!!

I like it and I already have a motor, cleverly disguised as a pump.

I’ve actually been thing, procrastinating really, about the same thing. Put it in, let it do its thing for a pump run cycle and pull it out till it’s needed again. Simples. Can’t decide on the two wheel thingo or the one with the bulldozer treads. Theres a shop over hear that has a knock off of the two wheel cleaner, I like a good bargain. I’ll keep looking, something will turn up.

 

[zero_sports]

I love my robot. Even if it last only 4 years, it cost about 250$ per summer. It worth it in my opinion. I dont do any manual brush or vacuum, just put the robot in the pool once a week and it does all the work. What i like the most, i remove the leaves and filter the water with it even after winterisation until the surface of the pool frozen. The pool stay clean in the winter and no need for leaves net.

I remove the robot from the pool each time and let it dry in the garage between each use in the hope that it will last longer. Time will tell....

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Help me better understand this one please. We are building a 16x30 VL pool and I thought I had read and understood pressure side cleaner was more expensive than robot to clean pool.

We have a dedicated line I asked to have run (1.5” sch 40) for a pressure cleaner in the future, planning to plumb it as a third return line for now.

I was looking at the Dolphins in the $800-$1000 range but have not bought anything yet.

Your comments are super interesting. What are you thoughts / experience with lifecycle costing of the pumps?

I’m not opposed to a pressure cleaner, just thought I understood robot was the better option?

Thanks in advance!

Pump driven cleaners, whether pressure cleaners of suction cleaners, are cheaper than robots. Pressure cleaners require an additional booster pump at the equipment pad so that adds to their initial cost plus they consume electricity to run the pump. Suction cleaners work off the pool pump by utilizing the suction that is already happening when you run a pump. For cost purposes, if you exclude the booster pump cost, a suction cleaner is probably the cheapest to purchase with pressure cleaners being slightly more expensive. Robots cost more by a factor of 2.

If you are building a pool you should either have a DEDICATED suction port for manual vacuuming OR a dedicated pressure line for a pressure cleaner OR both. Builders will say that you can get away with just using a suction adapter plate on a skimmer if you want a vacuuming line and, while true, they are annoying to mess around with. A dedicated port costs next to nothing in a new build budget and gives you much more flexibility.

 

[Mdragger88]

The “robots are cheaper” thing is about including the cost to run the pump. In some places this can be very expensive if it is a pressure side cleaner that requires a booster pump. In the case of a suction side cleaner this thought also held true when they first came out as many people still had single speed pumps and wanted to run them as little as necessary to save on energy costs. Now with more & more people having vsp’s this is much less of an issue.
Most folks would be running their main pump anyway so it’s not really an extra cost to have the suction cleaner going at the same time.
My take is if you want a robot get the cheapest model that will do the job to get the most out of your investment for the least amount of money as they don’t last forever.
Many people really don’t need a $1000 bot & a $500 - $600 one would do just as well. Spending more $ doesn’t mean it will last longer for these residential dolphins.
I am a big fan of refurbished electronics & have had good experiences over the years with refurbs so that’s the route I went to afford a bot with the features I desired. So far (3 seasons in) it has gone well & I am happy with what I got for what I paid. Mine pretty much lives in the pool for 7 months out of the year. Its an ongoing experiment!
Hopefully it continues to go about it’s duties upon opening in the spring. If not I will look into other options. I don’t have a dedicated suction port so using a suction cleaner means I won’t be skimming which is pretty bogus.
I would probably just go back to an Intex pressure side venturi cleaner as my last one served me well for several years, they are very affordable & don’t require a booster pump. Since I do have 2 returns using a pressure side cleaner doesn’t affect my circulation too much.

 

[Everett_88]

The “robots are cheaper” thing is about including the cost to run the pump. In some places this can be very expensive if it is a pressure side cleaner that requires a booster pump. In the case of a suction side cleaner this thought also held true when they first came out as many people still had single speed pumps and wanted to run them as little as necessary to save on energy costs. Now with more & more people having vsp’s this is much less of an issue.
Most folks would be running their main pump anyway so it’s not really an extra cost to have the suction cleaner going at the same time.
My take is if you want a robot get the cheapest model that will do the job to get the most out of your investment for the least amount of money as they don’t last forever.
Many people really don’t need a $1000 bot & a $500 - $600 one would do just as well. Spending more $ doesn’t mean it will last longer for these residential dolphins.
I am a big fan of refurbished electronics & have had good experiences over the years with refurbs so that’s the route I went to afford a bot with the features I desired. So far (3 seasons in) it has gone well & I am happy with what I got for what I paid. Mine pretty much lives in the pool for 7 months out of the year. Its an ongoing experiment!
Hopefully it continues to go about it’s duties upon opening in the spring. If not I will look into other options. I don’t have a dedicated suction port so using a suction cleaner means I won’t be skimming which is pretty bogus.
I would probably just go back to an Intex pressure side venturi cleaner as my last one served me well for several years, they are very affordable & don’t require a booster pump. Since I do have 2 returns using a pressure side cleaner doesn’t affect my circulation too much.

Good info!

I have a dedicate pressure line going in… it is 1.5” pvc. I assume I could plumb it as a dedicated suction at the pad?

Also, I have two skimmers and an auto-cover. I could use one skimmer for a suction cleaner, especially while cover is closed. Those are fairly cheap. Looked like a Rebel could be had for $300 bucks?

I will have an Intelliflo3 VSP.. would it be worth plumbing my 1.5” line as suction, allowing the rebel (or similar) to run “all the time” since the pump likely will be and than buy a ~$500 robot to drop in once a week or as needed for secondary cleaner?

 

[Everett_88]

The “robots are cheaper” thing is about including the cost to run the pump. In some places this can be very expensive if it is a pressure side cleaner that requires a booster pump. In the case of a suction side cleaner this thought also held true when they first came out as many people still had single speed pumps and wanted to run them as little as necessary to save on energy costs. Now with more & more people having vsp’s this is much less of an issue.
Most folks would be running their main pump anyway so it’s not really an extra cost to have the suction cleaner going at the same time.
My take is if you want a robot get the cheapest model that will do the job to get the most out of your investment for the least amount of money as they don’t last forever.
Many people really don’t need a $1000 bot & a $500 - $600 one would do just as well. Spending more $ doesn’t mean it will last longer for these residential dolphins.
I am a big fan of refurbished electronics & have had good experiences over the years with refurbs so that’s the route I went to afford a bot with the features I desired. So far (3 seasons in) it has gone well & I am happy with what I got for what I paid. Mine pretty much lives in the pool for 7 months out of the year. Its an ongoing experiment!
Hopefully it continues to go about it’s duties upon opening in the spring. If not I will look into other options. I don’t have a dedicated suction port so using a suction cleaner means I won’t be skimming which is pretty bogus.
I would probably just go back to an Intex pressure side venturi cleaner as my last one served me well for several years, they are very affordable & don’t require a booster pump. Since I do have 2 returns using a pressure side cleaner doesn’t affect my circulation too much.

One more random thought… could I put a MPV valve in on my dedicate 1.5” line and switch from suction to pressure depending on what I want to use? And could swap fitting in pool for an eye ball and use as a return if I ever wanted too?

 

[Mdragger88]

One more random thought… could I put a MPV valve in on my dedicate 1.5” line and switch from suction to pressure depending on what I want to use? And could swap fitting in pool for an eye ball and use as a return if I ever wanted too?

No idea but it sounds inventive!

 

[Mdragger88]

Good info!

I have a dedicate pressure line going in… it is 1.5” pvc. I assume I could plumb it as a dedicated suction at the pad?

Also, I have two skimmers and an auto-cover. I could use one skimmer for a suction cleaner, especially while cover is closed. Those are fairly cheap. Looked like a Rebel could be had for $300 bucks?

I will have an Intelliflo3 VSP.. would it be worth plumbing my 1.5” line as suction, allowing the rebel (or similar) to run “all the time” since the pump likely will be and than buy a ~$500 robot to drop in once a week or as needed for secondary cleaner?

Having a dedicated suction port should be standard as dealing with a skimmer plate can be hit or miss. + You want to always have a way to manually vac your pool even if you rarely use it. Automatic pool cleaners are nice but they don’t do it all. The other attributes of a bot is that it can operate independently of any other pool equipment which is really useful in the even of a plumbing problem or other equipment breakdown. For instance I can run my bot while my pool is winterized if I want. Pump is dead? Run the bot!
Robots & pressure side cleaners also collect all the debris internally instead of it going into your filter which means you don’t have to clean/backwash your filter as much. This is a big plus for many people with heavier debris.
In your situation with an auto cover you really don’t need two automatic cleaners if you keep the pool covered. I would pick the one you like the most & have yourself a dedicated suction port & possibly also a pressure line that can either be for a future cleaner or used as a jet now so you have options in the future. As they said- the plumbing is cheap to do in advance - not so much later. Leave yourself space on the pad.

 

[Everett_88]

Having a dedicated suction port should be standard as dealing with a skimmer plate can be hit or miss. + You want to always have a way to manually vac your pool even if you rarely use it. Automatic pool cleaners are nice but they don’t do it all. The other attributes of a bot is that it can operate independently of any other pool equipment which is really useful in the even of a plumbing problem or other equipment breakdown. For instance I can run my bot while my pool is winterized if I want. Pump is dead? Run the bot!
Robots & pressure side cleaners also collect all the debris internally instead of it going into your filter which means you don’t have to clean/backwash your filter as much. This is a big plus for many people with heavier debris.
In your situation with an auto cover you really don’t need two automatic cleaners if you keep the pool covered. I would pick the one you like the most & have yourself a dedicated suction port & possibly also a pressure line that can either be for a future cleaner or used as a jet now so you have options in the future. As they said- the plumbing is cheap to do in advance - not so much later. Leave yourself space on the pad.

Can the line I have ran already that was going to be a pressure line be, instead, a suction line? Or is the pipe size different between the two?

 

[Mdragger88]

Can the line I have ran already that was going to be a pressure line be, instead, a suction line? Or is the pipe size different between the two?

I don’t think they are usually different sizes. Should be fine. Several people here have repurposed their current pressure line/port to be a suction port to do away with their old booster pump & just replumbed their pad & changed the fitting in the pool.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

The buried PVC line has to be at least 1-1/2” in diameter and there needs to be a standard 1-1/2 threaded wall port. Some PBs will run 3/4” flex PVC from the pad to the wall port since pressure lines need to be 3/4”. Better PBs run 1-1/2” buried line and do all the adapters at the equipment pad. Show us a picture of your equipment pad and we might be able to identify what you have.

 

[Everett_88]

The buried PVC line has to be at least 1-1/2” in diameter and there needs to be a standard 1-1/2 threaded wall port. Some PBs will run 3/4” flex PVC from the pad to the wall port since pressure lines need to be 3/4”. Better PBs run 1-1/2” buried line and do all the adapters at the equipment pad. Show us a picture of your equipment pad and we might be able to identify what you have.

I know for sure I have a 1 1/2” sch 40 PVC line with 1 1/2” female threads.

Below is before they buried to equipment pad, from left to right, skimmer, main drain, skimmer, returns (2” teed into 1 1/2”), pressure / cleaner line.

Here is picture of the side of the shell. The middle fitting is the cleaner line.

Look okay?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I know for sure I have a 1 1/2” sch 40 PVC line with 1 1/2” female threads.

Below is before they buried to equipment pad, from left to right, skimmer, main drain, skimmer, returns (2” teed into 1 1/2”), pressure / cleaner line.

Here is picture of the side of the shell. The middle fitting is the cleaner line.

Look okay?

You’re golden. You can hook the cleaner line up to the suction line going into the pool pump. You’ll want to make sure that it is on a Jandy shutoff valve so you can isolate it. Also, on the pool wall side you’ll need a safety lock suction wall port. Looks like this (sometimes included with the purchase of a cleaner)

Amazon.com

Those are an absolutely must for safe operation as any suction source can become an entrapment hazard or suction-injury hazard. Kids are dumb knuckleheads and do stupid things or dare their friends to do stupid things, so best to be safe always.

 

[Dirk]

I have a dedicate pressure line going in… it is 1.5” pvc. I assume I could plumb it as a dedicated suction at the pad?

Very easily. It's what I had done after the pool was built. If they have not yet run the line, insist on sweep 90s for that line. It might make the difference for an errant twig getting stuck along the way or not. The less jogs and obstacles for that line the better.