Vegasmom's Pool Build

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Thank you, Carlos and Jason. That has been in the back of my mind and I wondered if we needed to worry about it. Hubby didn't think it was legal but didn't know about the mechanics lien. It is legal, says so in our contract. Now, SP did provide me with 'Unconditional Waiver and Release Upon Progress Payment' forms, but here's where 'lawyer speak' comes into play and gets confusing:

...does hereby waive and release any notice of lien, etc. any claim for payment, etc. to the following extent: This release covers a progress payment for the work, material and equipment furnished by the undersigned to the property...., but only to the extent of the payment amount...and does not cover any retention withheld, any items, modifications or changes pending approval, disputed items and claims, or items furnished that are not paid.

I called the tile guy today. That's where being friendly and talking with subs is a bonus. I have his bus. card and we were always on good terms. Plus, I baked them cookies and made them tacos, etc..I really didn't think he was going to actually put a lien on our house (which he came right out with and said he only said that to try to get SP to pay him.)

They owe him $1,800 and it actually wasn't for the wall re-do (which the owner is saying it is, and trying to say that was a change I made. Not!) Tile guy says it's for all the float work and concrete cutting he had to do. 600lbs. of mud + addtl. labor because our tile didn't fit on the top of the spa wall, and the back walls were so off he had to float 60' approx. before he could tile. He says the owner told him he didn't 'get approval' to do the work, which tile guy says super signed off on it. That's where the lawyer speak in the par. above comes into play.

I think we def. need to get something in writing from the owner releasing us from any responsibility with regards to this. Tile guy said he was probably just going to eat it and he's not putting a lien, but to cover ourselves, it would be the smart thing to do. Owner and his employees have told me "He's been paid". Why lie about it? And when I didn't know better and was saying "He can't put a lien on our property" Isn't it sly that no one mentioned the fact that he can? And the owner denied ever telling me that. Yeah, I just conjured that one up in my head because I have nothing better to do. :roll:

Again, thank you for bringing that to my attention. Better to deal with it now than get a surprise later. We are tentatively scheduled for plaster on Tues. but the winds are still blowing, so we'll see.

And Tres, that was cool trivia! I have a weakness for Coconut Margaritas, myself. And the rim is first dipped in honey, then toasted coconut. I practically eat the glass before I even get to the drink, LOL!
 
Yeah, if we weren't such trusting people (lessons learned!) we would have done our homework better and done it that way from the beginning.

Spoke with the lawyer and I'm also waiting for a call back from the NSCB. I was not provided with a preliminary or pre-lien notice from the subcontractor (tile guy).

Plaster guys showed up to clean and ready the pool. :-D Now if the wind would just stop blowing...
 
Look at your contract and you may find information designed to help protect you, but unfortunately, like us..since you've already signed, it may be tough to get GC to change the payment structure.

For ex. on ours it states 4 options, one of which is what Kevin mentioned, issuing joint checks. Another is to pay the subcontractor directly but this may result in a fee by a service company designed to control the funding of the project.

Also, the waiver and release forms may be provided by your GC, or you can have them sign one you provide. Be careful as to the wording on anything provided by GC as they are sometimes designed to protect them in certain events.

Again, we learned a lesson and shame on us for not securing ourselves from the get go. We trust too much that companies have our best interests in mind, but that is not always the case.
 
whoozer said:
So for those of us using a PB that has lots of subs...we should write checks out to both the subs and PB? I want to get this clear to CMA just in case!
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Here's an easier way to handle things and ensure you don't run into problems with your GC not paying your subs. Insist on signed lien release forms from each subcontractor and material supplier after the completion of each phase. It is your legal right to ask and PB/GC must provide it.


Our situation is somewhat complicated. We do *not* want to further delay this project. Plaster is scheduled for Tuesday providing weather allows. We are fully aware of our rights and the law. It is unlikely that the tile guy will file a lien against us. His time is nearly up anyway. There is a 90 day cutoff and it's almost here. He was off property in mid Feb.

Should a problem arise, which is unlikely, we will let our lawyer handle it.

I'm taking a little break and will update next week. 8)
 
Vegasmom said:
And Tres, that was cool trivia! I have a weakness for Coconut Margaritas, myself. And the rim is first dipped in honey, then toasted coconut. I practically eat the glass before I even get to the drink, LOL!
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I'm not a big coconut fan, but that sounds pretty darned good!!

On the liens, Birdbath over on Gardenweb just had to fire her PB unfortunately. She has since discovered that he has only paid one sub despite the fact that they've paid all but a few thousand to the PB!! She has one lien against her property already and suspects that she may end up with more. Below is some info that was posted that might interest you. It was posted by a guy that just went through this on a home he was building, but it's applicable to pool projects as well:

Here are some facts.
*Subs can place a lien on your property only within 120 days of the last work performed. Keep track of all dates when each one was last on your property. After that, they can not place a lien on the house. And they can not show up at your house to do menial work, if the only reason is to extend their 120 day deadline.
*DO NOT PAY OFF THE LIENS... after 120 days of last work performed, the subs have 40 days to file (to perfect)a civil lawsuit against you, to try to collect(160 days total). If they do not file a civil lawsuit against you before the 160 day deadline, the lien will disappear automatically. If you do not receive a certified letter from the Sherriffs office containing a summons w/in 30 days after the 160 day deadline,you are in the clear. ANd get this... 99% of subs do not have the time nor money to hire an attorney to take you to court. And a lot of them do not know of the timelines. It only costs $40 to file a lien, and they do not have to show proof. AND, I am assuming that you never signed a contract with any of the subs. If this is true, then every attorney that they speak with is going to advise them that their case is with the PB, and not you.
*There is a goood chance that subs will come knocking on your door, looking for payment, and some may even intimidate you. DO NOT PAY THEM. Explain to them that you fulfilled your obligation to the PB, and that their contract was with him, not you.
*Document each payment date, and for what each payment was for. There is a good chance that your PB is going to tell the subs that he can not pay them because you are withholding money from him. Don't fall for it.
*If any subs or the PB start to harass you, get a civil restraining order against them. (let them know your intentions first... this will usually stop them cold)
*If your PB declares bankruptcy, you will not be able to sue him.
*Fire your PB now, and do so in email, certified letter, and over the phone. State the exact reasons why. A good letter from an attorney may help here.
*I would add up what it will cost you to finish the pool, and add this amount to your letter, stating that you need reimbursed for this amount right now. Chances are nil that you will get it, but you want it stated in writing for possible future use.
*Do not wait for the ROC to take action. Hire a new PB as soon as you fire the old PB, and be swimming in your pool in 2 weeks.
*I believe that the ROC may have a fund set up for reimbursing people in your situation, I am not sure. Call them now, and find out all of the fine print for being eligible. If it is like the home builders fund, it may not be worth your time nor energy to even go that route.
*It is now time for you and your husband to take control of the situation. Look at it this way... the PB probably lowballed your project so he was ensured to get the job, so that he could pay off other bills. So, if it does cost you more to finish your pool, it still may be well under market value because of this fact. You should feel relieved today. Really. Now you finally know the story, the truth, and can take steps to be in your pool very soon.
*I do not know how it works there, but you may need a Certificate of Occupancy to make the finished pool legal. if it is the same as building a home, this requires a title search. And no CO will be issued with liens. But I really think this only applies to home building.

I really hope this helps. I am not an attorney, not even close, but, as I stated before, I just went through the exact same thing with my home builder, but on a much larger scale.
I kept telling myself that good things eventually happen to good people in the end. And it will for you too. Start ensuring this today.

Obviously your situation isn't as dire as this, but the lien info might be helpful to you. If not, there's always the margarita machine :-D
 
That's a real shame she's having to go through that. I hope it works out for her. What you posted is similar to what we learned. NV law is 90 days, and as I said, I really would be very surprised if he took any action. If he decides to, he won't stand a chance. We have plenty of weapons in our arsenal, so to speak. :wink:


As it stands, we're still scheduled for plaster tomorrow. I dunno, weather forecast is calling for wind but maybe it'll just be a light breeze and not enough to hold them off.

I have a gentleman here now grinding the concrete slabs we poured. I'll post some pics of that later..it's turning out really great!
 
Here's a couple close-up pics of the concrete. It has water on it so you can see the stone. I'll seal it with an enhancing sealer, to bring out the color. I love this look, it's like exposed aggregate but it's completely smooth. You can take it a few steps further and polish it, but I don't know how often that is done for an exterior. Could make it too slick.

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Quote: "looks like terrazzo! neat!"

It does look a lot like terrazzo, it's basically the same installation procedure. The main difference is terrazzo has marble chips in it instead of stone aggregate.

Quote: "We're getting plastered!!"

Wow, and it hasn't even been a year yet, LOL! That's awesome, congrats!! Can't wait to see some filled pics!
 
I have to wonder if polishing it would make it any more slippery... Especially if you're going to seal it... the surface you're going to end up with is the sealant surface which I'd think on a smooth surface would be slippery no matter what.
 
No pics yet, water is still filling up in the spa then I'll move that hose to add to the other 2 in the pool. Looks like it's gonna take awhile. The plaster crew did an excellent job. We got lucky, we were the only pool on their schedule that got done today. Winds started blowing as they were finishing up.

EP, I did a sample of 511 Seal and Enhance, which is a penetrating sealer and it gave the exact look I was hoping for. It will not make it slippery because it doesn't sit on the surface. I'm not a fan of coating type sealers because they just don't hold up well, especially in this climate. I don't know if slip resistance is going to be an issue when it's wet, we'll have to see. I can always add a slip additive but then I'm coating and I'd really rather not.

I may need to wait until fall, though, to seal because temps are already way over 90.
 
j4ydubs said:
TresW said:
Go water, go... faster, faster!!! Vegasmom, if you sit and watch it fill that makes it go a lot faster (not) LOL!
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And if you've been drinking (I'd have to join AA if I was vegasmom ;)), time has a way of moving faster. :D

John
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And life has a way of throwing curveballs when you least expect it :? Hubby had to go in for an emergency appendectomy late yesterday afternoon. He's fine but still in hospital. I'm running on 3 hrs. sleep (picture me on the top wall brushing the pool down in 45 mile an hour winds, trying not to fall in!) Can I say this? Brushing sucks.

I'm going back to the hospital but I wanted to ask you all how important is it that I brush it 3 times a day? What will happen if I only get to it once? I let the PB know and they said I'll get start up sometime today and they may be able to have someone help out but I can't count on it. It's sooooo windy today I don't think workers are out doing much.

Thanks for the support (hugs, you guys) It's so weird looking at it with water after all this time. Looks so pretty and hubby hasn't even had a chance to see it yet :(
 

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