Trying to balance Alkalinity and PH, but finding immense difficulty. Suggestions?

[DarkRider2k10]

For starters, I have an 18 foot above ground pool (18 foot, 52 inches deep.. so roughly 8,000 gallons max) and all last year my levels were near perfect with no issues. Sometime this winter my pool's winter cover ripped and so all the debris/junk/water got inside and left me with a mess. I opened the pool about 2 weeks ago and now the water is crystal clear and looking amazing, but my readings are frustrating:

PH: 6.2
TA: 100
FC: 3.0
CYA: 40

My problem is with my Alkalinity being extremely high and PH being extremely low. For context, my TA was 180 and PH was 6.8, so I threw in PH down and attempted to low the Alkalinity, which seemed to work (I'm using AquaCheck 4 way test strips btw) as my Alkalinity dropped closer to 80-100 (also bringing the PH to 6.2). I also moved the outlet so it was pushing upwards to aerate the pool, keeping the cover off overnight. This morning when I checked it though I saw the PH really hadn't increased much, but that the TA had seemed to climb up some which makes no sense to me? I assume the PH is just SUPER low and is in fact climbing, but I'm worried my Alkalinity is going back up though I can't seem to figure out how...

Any advice on this would be appreciated!!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
Test strips are leading you astray. Chemically, it is nearly impossible to have a pH of 6.2 and a TA of 100.
You need a proper test kit. I suggest the TF-100 or Taylor K2006C. A proper test kit is needed to get the accurate water chemistry results needed to follow the TFP protocols.
I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Thank you for that advice! That would then make sense as to why I've been going insane over the weekend.. I'm going to stop aerating the water and focus on cleanliness for now until I can get your suggested test kit. I'm going out later this afternoon so maybe a stop at the pool store I got it from the previous season is in order just to bring a water sample to have them test it and see what my levels are.
And here I thought from the reviews I had purchased something good .

Thanks again!!

 

[MITBeta]

Also, once you get your kit, manage pH and don't worry so much about TA. TA will fall as you manage pH, but there's no real reason to rush it.

 

[RLP]

Dont bother with the pool store test. Their results are often innacurate.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Oh? That's interesting to note. Here's what their test showed to me compared to what I had "tested" with my strips:

FC: 0
TC: 7.42
PH: 6.3
TA: 0
CH: 900
CYA: 5
Iron: 0
Copper: 1.7
Phosphates: 0
TDS: 1000

Their only suggestion was a partial water change due to calcium and iron build-up, which I have never tested for in my pool so I have no idea if accurate or not... I do get "some" gunk that builds up inside the skimmer area but I just contributed that to it collecting all the dirt/debris/junk from the day. The pool, and liner itself, looks spotless.

 

[RLP]

Get one of the test kits that was suggested above. Perform the test and post the results. Follow the advice given and your pool will be crystal clear and easy to maintain. This method works. once you experience a TFP pool, you wont want to swim in any other.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Finally ordered the test kit and as soon as it's in I'll get an accurate reading. Pool is still crystal clear and filter is still staying clear so I've just kind of left things alone aside from having a chlorine tab floating around the pool lol. I realized after a day or 2 that the readings from my pool store have to be off as well as the CH is just absurd, so I'm anxious to get the kit and get an accurate reading. Went with the TF-100 so it should do the trick

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Update: I got the test kit in today!!! So my only issue I had a heck of a time reading the PH and CH. I'm thinking the PH is around 7.2 (or between 6.8 to 7.2) but I did all of the tests and here's what I got:

Chlorine: 2-4
PH: between 6.8 -> 7.2
FC: 3
TC: 4
CH: 250? That one I actually found a bit tough to read because unlike the other tests it didn't immediately change color. It could have been a few drops less to be honest but I'm not 100% sure on this test and any tips/advice for it would be appreciated.
TA: 150
CYA: 100

 

[Texas Splash]

Rider, congrats on your own testing! First priority, the CYA. You need to lower that by exchanging some water. Everything else comes second. If your CYA actually is 100 and not higher, a 50% change if water reduces the CYA by half. After you able to do that first? Any questions about it?

 

[DarkRider2k10]

I would say that my CYA is probably a bit higher. It was near impossible (if able to see at all) below the 100 mark so it's definitely high. I know on my strips it read higher then 100 (closer to 120) so it could be that they were at least accurate on that front lol. But to confirm you are saying change out half the water in the pool?

 

[Texas Splash]

But to confirm you are saying change out half the water in the pool?

In your area you probably don't need a CYA more than 50. Will it hurt if it's 60 or 70? - no, not at all. It will just require a higher chlorine level for normal days and/or if a SLAM is required later. You can see that on the FC/CYA Levels. But I would definitely get it down to 70 or below as a non-salt pool. It will help to make managing other chemical levels much easier later.

 

[Texas Splash]

Once you feel that you've brought the CYA down to a reasonable level, post back with new test numbers and we'll prioritize everything from there. At that time, also let us know if the water is 100% crystal clear or if it shows any signs of cloudiness or green around the pool.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Once you feel that you've brought the CYA down to a reasonable level, post back with new test numbers and we'll prioritize everything from there. At that time, also let us know if the water is 100% crystal clear or if it shows any signs of cloudiness or green around the pool.

Awesome will do! I can report that there's no cloudiness or green around the pool. There was when I first opened the pool as my winter cover had ripped, but it honestly didn't take long at all for that to go away. A few days after turning the pump on and 2 bags of shock it went from green to cloudy, and then by the next week it was clear. Now it's 100% clear with no signs of debris. The first 2 weeks were basically lots of cleaning of the cartridge filter, netting, and vacuuming.

I'll change out some water tomorrow and post back the results from it. Hopefully I can drop it to 70 or below. I assume if it's closer to 70 the CYA levels over use/time will slowly drop as well right? So long as the solar cover is off which it normally is off during the day.

 

[Texas Splash]

I assume if it's closer to 70 the CYA levels over use/time will slowly drop as well right?

It should. It varies by pool, but anywhere from 5 ppm per month give or take a couple points.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

Update: I drained and filled some water today, and finally got it filled back up. Here's my (new) results:

CH/BR: .5/1
PH: between 6.8 and 7.2. No change in color from the previous pic I took so still hard for me to read it lol.
FC: 1
TC: 1.5
CH: 250
TA: 130
CYA: 65 (I'd assume 65, it's almost in the middle of 60/70 but if I'm going off the instructions then we can say 60).

 

[Texas Splash]

If your CYA is between 60 and 70, I would call it 70 for FC/CYA Levels purposes. Still, that's much better than yesterday and gives you something to work with. For now, I would simply increase the FC with liquid chlorine as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. This is a non-salt pool correct? If so, your ideal FC is 8-10 with a minimum FC of 5. Over time, as your CYA falls closer to 60 or 50, then your FC level can come down as well.

Your pH color looks like about 7.0 to me. On the low end, but give it a day or two and monitor. With a TA of 130 the pH "should" slowly rise on its own. If you have any forms of aeration, you can use those if you wish to help encourage a little quicker rise in pH.

This is all assuming the water is still 100% crystal clear. If it's not let us know. Any questions?

 

[DarkRider2k10]

If your CYA is between 60 and 70, I would call it 70 for FC/CYA Levels purposes. Still, that's much better than yesterday and gives you something to work with. For now, I would simply increase the FC with liquid chlorine as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. This is a non-salt pool correct? If so, your ideal FC is 8-10 with a minimum FC of 5. Over time, as your CYA falls closer to 60 or 50, then your FC level can come down as well.

Your pH color looks like about 7.0 to me. On the low end, but give it a day or two and monitor. With a TA of 130 the pH "should" slowly rise on its own. If you have any forms of aeration, you can use those if you wish to help encourage a little quicker rise in pH.

This is all assuming the water is still 100% crystal clear. If it's not let us know. Any questions?

Correct it's non salt. I feel like the CYA went down better then I thought so that's a good thing. I'll note it as 70 then and get some liquid chlorine as right now I only have the 3" tabs at my disposal lol.

Edit: I'm also glad to see I'm reading the pH correct as well. I measured it about 7.0 as well so I'm glad to see I'm in the right ballpark!

 

[duraleigh]

tips/advice for it would be appreciated.

On ANY drops based test (TA, CH, FAS.DPD) You continue to count drops until the last drop you add results in NO further color change. Subtract that last drop and the result is the endpoint.

 

[DarkRider2k10]

On ANY drops based test (TA, CH, FAS.DPD) You continue to count drops until the last drop you add results in NO further color change. Subtract that last drop and the result is the endpoint.

Thank you for the advice! I'm pretty confident I've done them all correct then. I'm probably just being overly skeptical lol. It's a lot easier to read the liquid test kit then any other kit I've had (it reminds me of the test kits I have/had for my aquarium).