Swamp to pool conversion
- Thread starter shortdogOH
- Start date
Update:
Unable to get pump to run. I disconnected it and plugged it in the garage and it ran like a champ
. Something must be up with the electric circuit, there is a timer and a switch and some GFI plugs that I will need to investigate but did not have the tools on hand.
Did notice a crack at the bottom of the housing for the pump filter. It is fairly small but water will leak out if not replaced/repaired, so going to do that before putting the pump back inline. I got some high strength epoxy that shuld do the trick and the crack is below the filter that the repair should not interfere with pump operation.
Spent rest of the time today on other projects including removing solids. Got a bucket and a half of "pool sludge" which included some dead squirrel remains and some remain of another small animal.
Question about the skimmer. I got the cover off and it does not look like there is a basket in there. It is really hard to see at the moment so maybe there is, but it is going to be problem to run the pump if there is no basket? I have consider putting a screen type mesh in front of the skimmer opening to do the work that a basket might do. Just wondering.
[attachment=0:6ut32por]pool sludge.jpg[/attachment:6ut32por]
Unable to get pump to run. I disconnected it and plugged it in the garage and it ran like a champ
. Something must be up with the electric circuit, there is a timer and a switch and some GFI plugs that I will need to investigate but did not have the tools on hand.Did notice a crack at the bottom of the housing for the pump filter. It is fairly small but water will leak out if not replaced/repaired, so going to do that before putting the pump back inline. I got some high strength epoxy that shuld do the trick and the crack is below the filter that the repair should not interfere with pump operation.
Spent rest of the time today on other projects including removing solids. Got a bucket and a half of "pool sludge" which included some dead squirrel remains and some remain of another small animal.
Question about the skimmer. I got the cover off and it does not look like there is a basket in there. It is really hard to see at the moment so maybe there is, but it is going to be problem to run the pump if there is no basket? I have consider putting a screen type mesh in front of the skimmer opening to do the work that a basket might do. Just wondering.
[attachment=0:6ut32por]pool sludge.jpg[/attachment:6ut32por]
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Long term you certainly want a skimmer basket. Without a skimmer basket the pump strainer basket will clog up very frequently, and it is noticably more work to clean out.
My local pool store has a huge selection of skimmer baskets. Call the stores to see who has a few to choose among.
anonapersona said:
Thanks, I got the water level down (more on that later) so maybe I can get a better view when the sun comes out again.
Pump repair seemed to go good. Power not so good, but I hooked up some temporary power and got the pump going with the sand filter in waste mode. I hope the smell does not bother the neighbors too much. The smell got even worse when I fired the pump up with the filter on recirc, and watched in horror as water came streaming out the water heater (think I am going to have to remove that item from my sig). I was able to get the heater disconnected but now I need about two feet of pipe to connect the water lines back up. By tomorrow I should be on to step two of the clean up, albeit on temporary power.
Update:
After two unsuccessful attempts or bridging the water heaters lines, I am still without a pump. Got another half a bucket of sludge from the bottom and a good idea how to successfully bridge the plumbing, just need to go get the parts, but tomorrow I am back to employment, so it will have to sit until Saturday. Went to pick up some TRi-chlor today, hth brand at walmart said it was 84% chlorine, also has 1.5% copper sulfate (or sulfite). Was looking for cya/stablizer but could not find it on their shelves. Was hoping it would do the trick.
After two unsuccessful attempts or bridging the water heaters lines, I am still without a pump. Got another half a bucket of sludge from the bottom and a good idea how to successfully bridge the plumbing, just need to go get the parts, but tomorrow I am back to employment, so it will have to sit until Saturday. Went to pick up some TRi-chlor today, hth brand at walmart said it was 84% chlorine, also has 1.5% copper sulfate (or sulfite). Was looking for cya/stablizer but could not find it on their shelves. Was hoping it would do the trick.
Trichlor has CYA in it, although I'm sure you're aware of that already. Your swamp may even have some CYA, time to test it if you have the kit. Those pucks won't help clear that pool, they don't dissolve fast enough to shock anything except maybe a kiddie pool (that's where I use my pucks, seems to work and I don't care how high the cya goes, we just use it to rinse feet off under the ladder).
When the pump is fixed, you'll want to use bleach (and if I were you, I'd be looking for that 12% liquid chlorine the pool stores carry, you're going to need a LOT). Too bad about your pump, I can feel your anxiety to start chlorinating the darn thing!
When the pump is fixed, you'll want to use bleach (and if I were you, I'd be looking for that 12% liquid chlorine the pool stores carry, you're going to need a LOT). Too bad about your pump, I can feel your anxiety to start chlorinating the darn thing!
frogabog said:
Thanks, and yes I would buy it for its CYA properties more than the clorine properties, though I am sure it will help some with the FC. I did see some 10% bleach, but I already have 40 gallons of the 6% stuff which should give me a good start.
Sources say straight CYA takes about 7 days to dissolve, which is about what the Tri-Chlor pucks also claim, so i just need to work the math to see how much cya each puck will add.
I previous tested the water, and could not detect any CYA, so I am assumming 0.
Someone asked earlier about trying to figure out how the previous owner maintained the pool. According to one neighbor he did several drains and refills. Could be why the liner seems to be losse in some places, and why the cya is nil. Seems like many of the Walmart (very close by) products are calcium based chlorinizers, so I am guessing if anything was used, it was that.
I was able to test the day after I squished the sock out which took about two hours. I'd put 20ppm worth in.
YMMV of course.
YMMV of course.
frogabog said:
Wow, I guess results vary. Anyway, I was going to shoot for 30 PPM, but 20 might be even better in getting started. I found the article, and it implies TRI is about 10% CYA,and pool calc indicates I need 3.3 lbs of CYA to rise 20 PPM. Using this math, indicates I need 33 lbs of TRI to get started. WOW
Okay, but using the "effects of adding chemicals" on pool calc, it says 6 lbs will get me there, which is more in line with what I was hoping. Perhaps someone can check the math, as "effects of adding chemicals" on pool calc indicates only a 18 PPM rise in CYA for Di-chlor, which is a higher concentration of CYA per ounce (or so I thought) than the TRI.
Also is the copper sulfate really something I want to be knowingly adding?
Update:
Okay I guess the 10% figure was more or less a guess or my logic is horrible, anyhow I found another source that indicates 6.5 lbs of TRI for me to get a 20 raise. There was a post around here that broke some of the PPM adds of the various products but I cannot find it now. Gonna go this route unless someone says that the copper is bad (or some other reason that I am wrong).
Okay I guess the 10% figure was more or less a guess or my logic is horrible, anyhow I found another source that indicates 6.5 lbs of TRI for me to get a 20 raise. There was a post around here that broke some of the PPM adds of the various products but I cannot find it now. Gonna go this route unless someone says that the copper is bad (or some other reason that I am wrong).
Copper is bad. A little won't do anything, but you are better off not adding any. If the copper level gets too high you can have blonde hair turning green and nasty stains that are very difficult to remove. A couple of pounds of trichlor with added copper won't do anything, but don't keep using that long term.
JasonLion said:
Thanks Jason, I will look and see if I can find TRI without the copper or better yet, some straight CYA. I plan on adding
6 pounds to start (of the TRI), and then another ~12 pounds when I switch to SWG (which may be a season or two in the future).
Walmart carries the HTH stabilizer. It comes in a 4 pound tub.
It is soooooo much simpler to just add stabilizer in known measurable quantities.
I'm a little confused over your trichlor product. Powder or tablets? Adding pounds at a time to get to a certain CYA level seems like it'd overchlorinate (although with that black mess you have there... might not be a problem lol). Tablets take time to dissolve. Powder would dissolve fast.
It would seem like doing straight CYA and bleach would be the best approach. You're in control that way, not your calculations. Save the trichlor for ramping up towards SWG levels perhaps?
It is soooooo much simpler to just add stabilizer in known measurable quantities.
I'm a little confused over your trichlor product. Powder or tablets? Adding pounds at a time to get to a certain CYA level seems like it'd overchlorinate (although with that black mess you have there... might not be a problem lol). Tablets take time to dissolve. Powder would dissolve fast.
It would seem like doing straight CYA and bleach would be the best approach. You're in control that way, not your calculations. Save the trichlor for ramping up towards SWG levels perhaps?
Hmm, Was just at walmart tonight and could not find it. Was keying on "conditioner" but went through each of their products, they had shock which was cal-hypo, super shock, which was a little stronger concentation of cal-hypo. All their products seemed to be hth brand and the only thing with TRI in it had copper sulfate pentahydrate as well.frogabog said:
To answer the TRI am talking about is hth 3 inch tablets. I am going back once again so I will check for a small tub of "stablizer", their borax is a full dollar cheaper than what I paid at the local grocery warehouse and there bleach is only a few cents more than Sams, which is a much longer drive, assumming the same size, so I will be going back at least for the borax and I need some type of CYA source and I know the TRI will not go to waste.
I got the supplies I need to join the plumbing back up after removing the broken water heater and I have 30-60 minutes between jobs tomorrow that I can see if it is going to work (and maybe even filter a bit more sludge. I envision the process going more quickly once I get the pump in to action.
It might be titled conditioner now that I think about it. You would have seen it if it was there though, I'm sure. Maybe try another walmart? Around here other stores similar to walmart carry HTH products, perhaps you have something like that too? Target? K-Mart? Even Sears...
Pool stores have it too. You might have to go into one of those.
I was asking about the trichlor because you were planning to use it to raise CYA and were calculating it by the total poundage. But tablets take time. I suppose you could dump them all into... something... a massive floater maybe that likely doesn't exist, and they would all melt away at the same rate at the same time, but it'd still take a long time to get them all dissolved. To do it all at once, you'd want to use dichlor shock powder instead of pucks.
Why don't you put just enough CYA to stabilize the chlorine while you shock and clear it, 20-30ppm gives you fairly low shock levels (cheaper). Then you can use the pucks to raise CYA enough for the SWG. Just keep in mind that after your swamp is clear, every tablet will add CYA and dosing numbers will change every 5ppm of CYA you raise so this summer while using them, test regularly and adjust chlorine as needed.
Good luck with the pump, once that's going you'll be much happier being able to put some of this stuff into the pool... even if you are a little sick of the debris removal task entually lol.
Pool stores have it too. You might have to go into one of those.
I was asking about the trichlor because you were planning to use it to raise CYA and were calculating it by the total poundage. But tablets take time. I suppose you could dump them all into... something... a massive floater maybe that likely doesn't exist, and they would all melt away at the same rate at the same time, but it'd still take a long time to get them all dissolved. To do it all at once, you'd want to use dichlor shock powder instead of pucks.
Why don't you put just enough CYA to stabilize the chlorine while you shock and clear it, 20-30ppm gives you fairly low shock levels (cheaper). Then you can use the pucks to raise CYA enough for the SWG. Just keep in mind that after your swamp is clear, every tablet will add CYA and dosing numbers will change every 5ppm of CYA you raise so this summer while using them, test regularly and adjust chlorine as needed.
Good luck with the pump, once that's going you'll be much happier being able to put some of this stuff into the pool... even if you are a little sick of the debris removal task entually lol.
No, you are right. That 4 lb tub sounds like what I need. There is a KMart right down the street from my second job. There pool supply stuff seemed to not be as broad as the Walmart (and more expensive) but they might have what I need. I agree, to keep the solutions as simple as possible at the start, and since i am only really adding one time, paying a premium does not hurt as much. I can order CYA online, but I never know when it will arrive, so procrastination has got the better of me. The pool store I know of always seems to be closed, I only see them open on Sunday, and there are always (the same?) six vehicles there. I never see anyway going in or coming out, I am thinking they run a poker tournament there or something, but I have never stopped.
Question then. Assumming I cannot find straight CYA, can I drop 6 pounds of TRI tablets (or CYA if I find it) in a 5 gallon bucket of pool water to get a start on the dissolve process?
I like your idea of keeping CYA as low as possible, so I am shooting for 20 now instead of 30. I think I will want 30 for normal pool operation but until I get there, 20 seems the better way to go.
Thanks for following along.
Question then. Assumming I cannot find straight CYA, can I drop 6 pounds of TRI tablets (or CYA if I find it) in a 5 gallon bucket of pool water to get a start on the dissolve process?
I like your idea of keeping CYA as low as possible, so I am shooting for 20 now instead of 30. I think I will want 30 for normal pool operation but until I get there, 20 seems the better way to go.
Thanks for following along.
Got a pestal and mortar? I'd crush it first. But, after watching those things dissolve I don't know if it'd work. They kind of melt away and get holes like a rock that's been in a creek for hundreds of thousands of years.
If you dissolved it in water first, the chlorine would go into that water, and likely dissipate by half each day you had it in there. The pool wouldn't get the chlorine, only the CYA.
Here's a thought... 5 gallon bucket, drill lots of holes, then sink it near the return just under the surface. Then smash up the trichlor and dump it in in so that every tablet chunk dissolves at the same rate. Lotta work and unknowns here as compared to just adding CYA and being done with it but maybe it'll work. ??? I would not count the trichlor as something that could shock the pool but after it was in for a while it might supplement the shocking and then all you'd have to do is test and add bleach to shock level atop of the trichlor level. CYA would be unknown however until it was all dissolved and you test for the true level.
Realistically, someone who knows something should be answering this, not me!
If you dissolved it in water first, the chlorine would go into that water, and likely dissipate by half each day you had it in there. The pool wouldn't get the chlorine, only the CYA.
Here's a thought... 5 gallon bucket, drill lots of holes, then sink it near the return just under the surface. Then smash up the trichlor and dump it in in so that every tablet chunk dissolves at the same rate. Lotta work and unknowns here as compared to just adding CYA and being done with it but maybe it'll work. ??? I would not count the trichlor as something that could shock the pool but after it was in for a while it might supplement the shocking and then all you'd have to do is test and add bleach to shock level atop of the trichlor level. CYA would be unknown however until it was all dissolved and you test for the true level.
Realistically, someone who knows something should be answering this, not me!
frogabog said:
Good point about the Cl dissipating. Still have not done anything, will look for CYA tomorrow and still need to get the pump going. Strike 3 at Lowes trying to fix it. Everything they got seems to be threaded different than what I need. I might have to start cutting into the existing PVC to form my own path with connectors I know will fit with each other. Also,might have a bead on a used water heater, with hopes the connections are roughly the same (is this asking too much?). Used heater a good idea?
Made some progress on the skimmer. Looks like the basket is missing, but I got measurements and a model number so I can start to look for replacements. I really need to focus on getting the plumbing solved so I can run the pump more than a minute at a time. :grrrr:
I see you've been worrying about how to get stabilizer (CYA) in the water right away. If it were me I wouldn't worry about the CYA level until you've killed most of the organics. Your chlorine is going to be used up almost immediately oxidizing everything in the water before it even has a chance to be degraded by the sun's UV rays.
Going through the shock process with 0 CYA will give you much higher hypochlorous acid levels which will make short work of the swamp conversion. You will need to stay on top of it during the first few days though because it will use up that chlorine very quickly. You'll probably have to test and add chlorine at least every two hours the first day to maintain shock level.
Once you get your pump going and start the shock process just put some CYA in a sock next to the return jet. By the time the shock process is over the CYA level will be climbing up to where you need it to be.
Going through the shock process with 0 CYA will give you much higher hypochlorous acid levels which will make short work of the swamp conversion. You will need to stay on top of it during the first few days though because it will use up that chlorine very quickly. You'll probably have to test and add chlorine at least every two hours the first day to maintain shock level.
Once you get your pump going and start the shock process just put some CYA in a sock next to the return jet. By the time the shock process is over the CYA level will be climbing up to where you need it to be.