Still cloudy after months of effort

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Clay has a particle size of less than 2 microns. There is no way a sand filter will touch this and a cartridge filter would pass this through as well. A DE filter or DE added to a sand filter would barely catch some of this but would still mostly let pass the smaller clay particles (it can catch a reasonable amount of silt, however, since that is larger than 2 microns).

So this is an excellent example of where this is not due to poor circulation or filtration that is broken, but rather that particles are in the pool that the filters were not designed to remove. Coagulation with a clarifier or flocculation with a flocculant are reasonable in this sort of situation. A slime bag that filters down to 1 micron could help but even that with clay is iffy (some clay particles are smaller than 1 micron) and the bag would likely clog rather quickly so wouldn't be very efficient. Water replacement would also be an option if water were inexpensive and plentiful.

Fortunately, nearly all pool cleanup for cloudiness is related to algae and can be filtered even by sand filters though for some algae types that don't clump much and that are smaller cells adding DE to a sand filter can help to speed it along. Remember that there are at least 100 Reasons for Cloudy Water (from Ben Powell at PoolSolutions).
 
Hi All,
Test results...

FC. 10 (I have let it drift down, it has been holding at 23)
CC <.5
PH. 7.0 to 7.2
TA. 250
CH 200
CYA 40

image.jpg

Good visibility to about 4 feet. Bottom drain is somewhat visible with pump off... I am tempted to use a little more clarifier while I wait for the a Slime Bag to arrive next week... I am running out of summer!
 
Are the cartridges secure on the bottom of the filter pipes inside the filter? Also mine has a bleed tube that connects in the middle of the two filters that extends to the top. I would make sure everything is lined up properly. just something to check.
 
Hi WJ,
My filter has one large filter. From what I can tell (I bought it used last year) the new cartridge is seating just fine inside the ring at the bottom and also the top.
I mention that it is used because it is possible that something is missing. It has also occurred to me that if the cartridge is not seated perfectly or if there is supposed to be a washer (or seal) of any kind and it is gone, it would affect the filtration. I just need to do some more research to be sure.
In the meantime, I added about 6 ounces of Chlorox clarifier yesterday afternoon, and today the pool was noticeably more clear. Not to the bottom of the deep end, but very clear to about 5 feet... The recently cleaned filter with the Aladdin cartridge in it currently is holding a very low pressure, so I am going to pull it out and inspect it for tears, and pop in the (cleaned) Pleatco cartridge.
The pump is on a timer, and it is running about 10 hours a day. At the rate I am going, the pool will be crystal clear just in time for my kid to start school next week :)
 
Hi WJ,
I am really embarrassed to write this, but I might be missing the "guide cone" that goes between the top of the filter cartridge and the filter top half...
It shows up in every schematic (and there is a "ring at the top of the inside of the "lid", although there could still be plenty of room for that cone), but I do not recall seeing one when I have replaced the cartridge... which could mean that smaller stuff is blowing right past it...exactly what I have been posting about.
I will check a little more about whether I am missing this part, and if I find out it was my stupidity this whole time, I will definitely NOT tell my wife :)
 
Hi Guys,
I am even more clueless than before. The schematics seem to indicate a "guide cone" which I do not have.
In looking at the top half of the filter, the lid has a pretty tight fitting sleeve inside that seems to extend into the middle of the cartridge. Maybe there is room for this cone, but I can't tell for sure. I will research a little more and report back...
 

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Am I missing something? Like crucial parts on my New to Me Hayward C1750?

Hi All,
I started a thread in the Beginners Pool section, and it finally occurred to me that my cloudy water might not be an issue with chemicals...
I bought a used Hayward C1750 filter last year, and I now wonder if it is complete. When I look at a schematic of the filter, it shows a"guide cone" that I do not have...
What is also confusing to me is that there is a sleeve (a thin cylinder, kind of like the top to a paint spray can) that is molded into the top half of the filter housing. It is about three or four inches tall. It seems like this cylinder goes inside of the cartridge as everything is put back together, and that setup provides a pretty snug ( but maybe not snug enough?) fit inside the cartridge. There also are ridges that are all the same height around this "cylinder", and those seem to be a bearing surface as the top half is snugged down onto the bottom.
Particulate (probably dead algae) is definitely getting through this filter and blowing back through the return. Are there some models of the Star Clear series of filters that do not require this "guide cone"? Or is it possible that because this one is missing the cone that stuff blows past it? I have noticed that a brand new (or freshly cleaned) filter allows NO small (but still visible) stuff past the filter for just about ten minutes. I wonder if the pressure inside the filter housing builds just enough after the first amount of debris is captured to push a path past the filter, allowing the particulate through...
Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
David
 
I think the USED filter may have been overlooked in this discussion. A manufacturer does not produce a filter that doesn't work. A filter missing part(s) is a different story.

SLAMming or maintaining a crystal clear pool has two essential parts.....correct chemistry to kill and keep killed all organics. Filtration to pick up algae carcasses and any other debris that has found it's way into your pool water.

Assuming your chemistry is correct, it is obvious your filtration may not be. I think you have to solve that filtration issue before running to the clarifier "magic bullet" which is normally not very effective and often does more harm than good,

I have forwarded your thread to a very knowledgeable Haward filter guy. He may have some insight.
 
I don't see that model on their site? Are there more letters or numbers? I think that number is the number of the cartridge. But I see what you mean on certain models. From what I know about my own cartridge filter, that cone serves two purposes. It seals the incoming water out and it centers the filter in the filter body. Without it, I think the water will bypass the filter and go straight down the center and out. The normal path forces the water through the filter and then down to the outlet.

Of course you know what I'm going to ask for next.

Pictures!! Lots of them.
 
Hi Dave,
I spoke at length with a tech from Hayward, and the long and short of it is that the missing parts (guide cone and related hardware) would not usually cause the issue I have... he said that the only thing he could suggest is that maybe the torsion rod (that allows the top to be securely fastened to the bottom) may have stretched...but it is not likely in an attempt to create a tighter seal.
All symptoms are the same as far as the filter, despite adding heavy rubber "washers at the bearing points. I did notice that the "milk" coming out of the return seems to be super small bubbles. I know this usually indicates a leak on the suction side of the system, and I will continue to try to track that leak down.
I continue to add small amounts of clarifier, and today I could clearly see the bottom of the pool in great detail, even at the deep end... the filter cartridge had a good deal of algae slime on it, and was swapped out for a cleaner filter while it gets cleaned.
Even Hayward's website says that their filters will not remove algae, and they seem to advocate chemical help. I'm all for simplicity in dealing with this water clarity issue, but to be honest, I have made a lot more progress WITH the clarifier than before. This is not to say that I am ignoring any of the other advice on this site -- quite the contrary. And again, I am happy to explore other ways to get this pool clear. I just have to also acknowledge that it is one week until my kid starts school, and pool time will be harder to come by after that, and the season will wind down soon.
Again, if there is a way for me to get this pool clear that has not been discussed (and therefore tried), please let me know and I will do it immediately. I have learned a lot from this site, and consider it to be the best in terms of expertise. I am almost there...

Thanks,
David
 
Hi PA,
I may have answered some of your questions in my response to Dave. The filter is a Hayward C1750, but I think the current version is called C17502.
The tech on the phone (Hayward) said that the guide cone does not affect any of what you described, but I am holding out a little bit of hope that all this stuff takes up some room and as everything is pushed together it seals the cartridge better than it is now... Amazon had the kit and it will be here by Thursday... crossing my fingers !


Thanks,
David
 
When I looked at the schematic of those filters online there seemed to be a large O-ring that goes on top of the cartridge between the top of the filter. Might be in the kit you ordered.
 
O-Ring #7 is between the top and the middle of the filter body.

I think the tech you were talking to is off his rocker. I might be wrong, it happened once before, but it seems pretty obvious that the cone is doing more than just being a guide.

Think about it this way, the water comes into the inlet, into filter body and surrounds the cartridge, It is supposed to go through the cartridge and then down and out the outlet. If that cone isn't there, what's to stop the water from going straight up the filter body and down through the top of the cartridge?
 
Hi PA,
I can't quite understand it either. There is a 4" "sleeve" molded into the top piece and the bottom piece of the filter. The cartridge is inserted over the bottom sleeve (the center hole of the cartridge goes into it) and the top piece does the same as it is lowered into the bottom. The tech said that the cone is for "guidance" only.
The fit of the sleeve inside the filter is snug, but not tight. I cannot figure out why your description (water going to the top of the cartridge and making it past that "seal") couldn't happen, but I am certainly no engineer. It just seems like a connection that would beg for an o ring or at least a gasket or some kind... but again, I am not an engineer, so what do I know? I am just hoping that the cone and other parts take up enough room to cause the tightening of the top to the bottom to be more effective.
Hayward has sold hundreds of thousands of these things, so the deign must work. I still think I am (literally) missing something...


Thanks,
David
 

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