Salt Conversion and PH Monitor

[tides229]

Hello all,

So I have a very old gunnite in ground pool that is currently a chlorine system. We are doing a replumb this summer and I inquired about converting to salt.

My contractor gave me these numbers:

Provide and install a new IC40 cell and power center with intial dose of salt- $4190.00
Provide and install a new IntelliPH monitoring system- $1880.00

He really cautions against salt and says they are taking off more salt systems then installing. I am in the northeast. He states that the IntelliPH is necessary due to corrosion concerns.

Do these numbers seem right to you (seem high in my opinion)? I am no stranger to testing pool chemistry and will certainly not neglect the pool once salt converted.

Thanks!

 

[dfwnoob]

He really cautions against salt and says they are taking off more salt systems then installing. I am in the northeast.

That is some S. Builders hate SWCGs because they typically also offer weekly pool service and it cuts into their profits.

He states that the IntelliPH is necessary due to corrosion concerns.

As is that. There's nothing different about maintaining pH in a "salt" pool. You already HAVE a salt pool since you have chlorine.

Can you fill out your signature with the details about your pool? Pictures of your equipment pad would help, too. It may be a rather easy (and significantly cheaper) DIY install depending on your setup and how confident you are in your basic plumbing and electric capability.

Even if you have someone else install it, I would find a pool company that isn't willing to lie to your face.

 

[PieterS]

Seems high to me too - @IceShadow just documented his own install of an IC60 here: IceShadow - SWCG Thread

I believe he paid $1750 for the cell + power system. If you're relatively handy, it's not that hard an install. The IntelliPh monitoring system is not necessary. If you're comfortable with testing and adjusting pool chemistry with the right testing kit Test Kits Compared, you'll have no trouble maintaining. This contractor seems skeptical on salt systems, I'd get another quote, or just make sure there's enough of a straight run for you to plumb in yourself after the fact.

Good luck!

 

[Jimrahbe]

229,

Seems to me your contractor is full of Bull Feathers and trying to rip you of as well..

An IC40 and power center is about $1500 bucks. Plus installation...

You do not 'need' an iPh, but if you decide to get one later, you can always add it.

Pentair IntelliChlor IC40 Complete Salt Chlorinator System

Pentair IntellipH pH Controller

I have three saltwater pools and none of them have an ipH. I add a little acid once a week or less and it is just not that big a deal.

There are just no corrosion issues. This is not saltwater like in the ocean where it is 35,000 ppm. The salt level in a pool is about 3,500 ppm.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Mdragger88]

The ic40 & salt part seems very high to me if that’s all they’re doing. The price of an ic40 system is around $1600 to purchase.
Since it’s not a new fill you likely have a bit if salt now after using chlorine for some time & salt is $5-$8 per 40# bag.
In a 25k gallon pool with zero salt it would cost maybe $150.
I don’t know much about the intelli ph system so can’t comment there.

 

[tides229]

Thank you for the replies. I thought as much. Unfortunately, this is the only outfit in town willing to do repairs on our pool (all the other companies will only work on pools they installed). Our current pool equipment is located inside (in a closet) and I want to move all the equipment outside during the replumb.

I may just have them do the repair/re-plumbing work and move the equipment and then have my usual pool guy convert to salt at that time.

The long story is that our main drain has been leaking since we bought the house and now the skimmer line is plugged and nobody has been able to unplug it despite many efforts. Instead of digging we are going to replumb it given the age of the pool (1960s or so). At that time we are going to replace the deck/coping and the waterline tile.

Thanks again!

 

[an1vrsy]

That quote/estimate looks like a "go away" or I can make a lot of money if this customer signs on the dotted line. A local pool supply company in Las Vegas ships all over the country and they sell a IC60 with power supply for $1,799.95. I don't believe $2,000 for installation is appropriate.

 

[dfwnoob]

That's exactly what it is. He doesn't want to mess with it and wants you to go away. Over 2x markup is nuts. I paid $2k for my AquaPure, but it's Jandy so I had no choice but to buy it from an "authorized" distributor. It took a whole two hours of my time to install.

If you truly have no other choices, I'd let them do whatever replumbing is necessary and either DIY the SWCG or hire someone else to do it who isn't a moron.

 

[IceShadow]

Yeah, I got mine for $1750 for an IC60 with power center - IC40 with power center is like $1600. (I could swear it was $1500 a few weeks ago, but prices subject to change, all that.) Salt was like $50 for all I needed (about 400 lbs).

I did have to do a lot of work on my electrical on my wall as the box to the pump was really old and needed replacing. Maybe his quote includes electrical work? Otherwise I agree with others, it's an "I don't want to do this so I'll quote you really high and if you end up taking it, then I get paid extra for my unwillingness being overcome."

 

[tides229]

Now this makes me question the quote he gave me for the rest of the work. What do you guys think of this?

Its a 28k gallon pool or so, irregular shape (kidney shaped)

1) Drain pool and remove tile, install new 6x6 tile- $6110
2) Install bullnose coping 1" wide (banas stone)- $11,192
3) Install new vacuum line, install 2 new returns, install new skimmer and line, install new face piping at pump and filter- $15,180

 

[reggiehammond]

Wowzer.

 

[mgtfp]

He states that the IntelliPH is necessary due to corrosion concerns.

In terms of corrosion it's low pH that's of concern for metal surfaces (e.g. in heaters) or as a CSI influencing factor for plaster surfaces.

I don't see how low pH is a concern in a salt water pool where pH - as also in liquid chlorine pools - tends to rise over time due to CO2 outgassing, which can usually be managed sufficiently by maintaining reasonably high pH and low TA.

I actually see the risk for low pH higher with an automated acid dosing system, as it can lead - depending on fill water TA, amount of rainfall, and TA testing frequency - to accidental TA depletion with consequent pH crash.

Some like @Dirk swear by automated acid dosing to stay on top of pH rise under the specific circumstances of their pool. For many (most ?) it's just not required. And this corrosion argument is just .

 

[Dirk]

The only reason you might want an IntellipH is if you just can't stand the thought of dispensing acid into your pool by hand, and you have to do it so often that the cost of an IntellipH is worth it to you. But that's all an IntellipH does, it squirts acid into your pool. It doesn't monitor anything, or solve anything that manually adding acid doesn't. It comes with a controller that just adjusts how much acid gets dispensed. And it cannot be installed stand-alone, it is a companion to, and requires the installation of an IntelliChlor.

If you have an IntelliChlor installed, the DIY installation of an IntellipH is quite easy, if you have even rudimentary skills. It's plugging a few cords in, connecting up a couple of 1/4" tubes, and drilling a hole into one of your PVC pipes. That's about it. You don't even have to cut any pipe or glue any PVC. You can buy the entire system for about $665 online, and no installation cost is necessary.

It can be installed at any time after you have an IntelliChlor. So if you decide to get the SWG, whether you install it or the pool guy does, you could run the SWG for a season, and see how manually adding acid works for you. You can add the IntellipH later, if you ever want to, there is no reason it has to be installed at the same time as the SWG.

So, yah, this guy knows he's the only game in town and is charging accordingly. It's one thing to seek a premium for your services, but he's doing so while giving you bad information, if in fact he's trying to talk you out of a salt system while also trying to sell you an IntellipH using false claims (it has nothing to do with "corrosion concerns"). So that's a little suspicious.

That said, I wouldn't own a pool without an SWG, and given the same fill water conditions I have now, I'd certainly want an IntellipH. I find the two together a great convenience and worth the cost. I had my SWG professionally installed, though I'd do it myself if I had to do it again. I installed my IntellipH. I maintain both myself. EZPZ.

 

[tides229]

Thank you all for the explanations and help. I just found out about another company that is a little outside of town but willing to do work in my area. I am going to get another quote for the entire project because the whole thing is now in question given these shady practices.

 

[Mdragger88]

It’s ALWAYS best to get multiple quotes when doing a major project - at least 3.
Also be sure you’re getting apples to apples quotes (same work, same equipment etc.)
With tile work, electrical, & plumbing involved be sure to do your due diligence on each contractor for insurance, bonding & references. Rehabbing a pool can be more work than building a new one & requires the same frame of mind.
Here’s a helpful guide- although it doesn’t all apply to your situation it can help you sort out what’s needed & what to pay attention to.

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[FlappyLipps]

Now this makes me question the quote he gave me for the rest of the work. What do you guys think of this?

Its a 28k gallon pool or so, irregular shape (kidney shaped)

1) Drain pool and remove tile, install new 6x6 tile- $6110
2) Install bullnose coping 1" wide (banas stone)- $11,192
3) Install new vacuum line, install 2 new returns, install new skimmer and line, install new face piping at pump and filter- $15,180

I could have a brand new pool installed here for that price. $32,482.00