Replacement heater....

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carlb

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Jun 11, 2013
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got 10 years out of my Hayward 400k propane heater. I'm looking for a replacement. 1. my location is near multiple Oak Trees, 20-30' away. Oak leaves are dropping through the heat vent on the top of the Unit. 2. Mice/Rats Both ends of the heater have been breached by animals seeking a home during winter. Hayward uses Plastic end covers. Does anyone make an all metal case for a Heater?

Has the industry improved pool heaters in the past 10 years? I have an Omnilogic controller. Any suggestions?

Carl
 
My Jandy JXI 400 is all metal and I believe the same footprint as your Hayward. Most controllers will control most heaters so no need to match brands. I would look for a way to shield the vent. But my vent has small slats nothing would ever make it into the heater.
 

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carlb said:
got 10 years out of my Hayward 400k propane heater. I'm looking for a replacement. 1. my location is near multiple Oak Trees, 20-30' away. Oak leaves are dropping through the heat vent on the top of the Unit. 2. Mice/Rats Both ends of the heater have been breached by animals seeking a home during winter. Hayward uses Plastic end covers. Does anyone make an all metal case for a Heater?

Has the industry improved pool heaters in the past 10 years? I have an Omnilogic controller. Any suggestions?

Carl
Click to expand...
There are screen kits for many brands of heaters that are designed to keep pests out. A mouse can enter a hole as small as 1/4". Some rats can as well, very common problem in many areas.
 
carlb said:
got 10 years out of my Hayward 400k propane heater. I'm looking for a replacement. 1. my location is near multiple Oak Trees, 20-30' away. Oak leaves are dropping through the heat vent on the top of the Unit. 2. Mice/Rats Both ends of the heater have been breached by animals seeking a home during winter. Hayward uses Plastic end covers. Does anyone make an all metal case for a Heater?

Has the industry improved pool heaters in the past 10 years? I have an Omnilogic controller. Any suggestions?

Carl
Click to expand...
I know that Pentair heaters have been improved to prevent rodents entering.
Most any automation will control a heater via the simple on/off fireman’s switch.
 
Thanks for the input. Does know of an all metal external wall water heater? No Plastic/Poly/Nylon etc. Small mesh vents all around. Besides mice/rats I'm surrounded by Squirrels, Flying Rats....

Got a couple of estimates coming Monday/Tuesday. Thanks Guys/Girls.

Carl
 
Look into the construction of the Raypak Avia heater…

AVIA – Raypak

Raypak Pool & Spa, Residential and Commercial Hydronic Products -
www.raypak.com www.raypak.com
 
compare Avia P-R404A-EP-N with Hayward Universal HC Series - Dual Fuel and Pentair - EC-462029 MasterTemp, Low NOx, 400K BTU

So... any input is welcome. I'm down to 3 units The raypak doesn't have to be "ASME" I've read multiple reviews it's overkill for residential....

I'm trying to keep logical expectations on this replacement. I have an estimate for a replacement to the current Hayward H400, $5600 installed (local pool companies charge $160 an hour labor) Quote covers tearout, install and replacement of any landscaping impacted replaced. Hard to find any updates/improvements of the Hayward product over the last 10 years. The new dual fuel HDF400 is the current offering. Looks good but hard to find a local company that get get the product until May. Raypak (Rheem company) Avia claims "With Raypak’s industry-first technology, NiTek, this AVIA HD is 300% more erosion resistant than copper, and 200% more than cupronickel." and Pentair ETI400 has incredible specs (efficient) but... seems I do have a budget below $8K.... So looking at the Pentair, pretty much the same category as Hayward, unless someone here has some more insight.

Thanks,

Carl
 
carlb said:
compare Avia P-R404A-EP-N with Hayward Universal HC Series - Dual Fuel and Pentair - EC-462029 MasterTemp, Low NOx, 400K BTU

So... any input is welcome. I'm down to 3 units The raypak doesn't have to be "ASME" I've read multiple reviews it's overkill for residential....

I'm trying to keep logical expectations on this replacement. I have an estimate for a replacement to the current Hayward H400, $5600 installed (local pool companies charge $160 an hour labor) Quote covers tearout, install and replacement of any landscaping impacted replaced. Hard to find any updates/improvements of the Hayward product over the last 10 years. The new dual fuel HDF400 is the current offering. Looks good but hard to find a local company that get get the product until May. Raypak (Rheem company) Avia claims "With Raypak’s industry-first technology, NiTek, this AVIA HD is 300% more erosion resistant than copper, and 200% more than cupronickel." and Pentair ETI400 has incredible specs (efficient) but... seems I do have a budget below $8K.... So looking at the Pentair, pretty much the same category as Hayward, unless someone here has some more insight.

Thanks,

Carl
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When it is time for a repair, as good as Hayward heaters are, I always preferred Sta-Rite/Pentair. They are a simpler design with less circuit boards to try and troubleshoot. They both heat the water so it comes down to future costs when I try to sell a product.
 

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I have had it for 7 seasons. Last season the copper heat exchanger developed a leak and had to be replaced, which I did myself for around $1200. It heats my 29k gallon pool around 1-2 degrees per hour. If it ever fully failed, I would probably get it again. Most major brands have a similar heater.
 
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Decided on the PentAir MasterTemp 400 propane. Has anyone installed the AUTOMATIC BY-PASS VALVE KIT (P/N 462048) FOR MASTERTEMP® AND MAX-E-THERM® POOL AND SPA HEATERS? Was it worth the cost?

Thanks
Carl
 
carlb said:
Decided on the PentAir MasterTemp 400 propane. Has anyone installed the AUTOMATIC BY-PASS VALVE KIT (P/N 462048) FOR MASTERTEMP® AND MAX-E-THERM® POOL AND SPA HEATERS? Was it worth the cost?

Thanks
Carl
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You should install at least the manual Heater Bypass - Further Reading

Only you can judge if it is useful to you to install an actuator on it and make it automatic.

You don’t have an IntelliCenter that works with the automatic bypass and I don’t know how your OmniLogic will work with it.

The MasterTemp can directly control the automatic bypass if the bypass actuator is plugged into the board but the original version did not properly work. I have heard there is a revised board in newer units to fix the problem. I also am not sure how the MasterTemp control of the automatic bypass valve will interact with Omni control of the heater.

So you can give it a try and see how it works in your setup.
 
You can use the conventional jandy never lube diverter valve in the bypass for manual use and when you're ready for the automation part just put an actuator on it. Just make sure there's room for the actuator in the initial design.
 
Thank you both. I live an hour west of Orlando. Only 1 pool company that works with Omnilogic. Not as much automation out this way. I called Pentair today and shared the info locally. Hope to get on the repair schedule next week.

Carl
 
carlb said:
Decided on the PentAir MasterTemp 400 propane. Has anyone installed the AUTOMATIC BY-PASS VALVE KIT (P/N 462048) FOR MASTERTEMP® AND MAX-E-THERM® POOL AND SPA HEATERS? Was it worth the cost?

Thanks
Carl
Click to expand...
Probably your best bet... Although more efficient, ETi 400 suffers from all the same problems that the Mastertemps do, minus the leaks to the heat exchanger. Our Mastertemp Cupro-nickel version is going strong at 11 years. Also, you got 10 years out of your Mastertemp. How long will it take to recoup the $4000-$5000 in costs from going with the ETi series. Crazy!!
 

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