quick question about repairing a couple of small holes from rust

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C

cl206

Active member
Jun 20, 2023
26
Orangeburg, NY
Hello! I have a 27ft AGP (in NY) and noticed this today:
https://imgur.com/a/dWC8AJR
Our pool is not opened yet and the holes are about where the current water level is. From my limited research, my plan would be:
A) lower the water some more (maybe 5-6 inches below the holes)
B) pop 2 or 3 of the top rails
C) peel back the liner so I can sand, sheet metal, pop rivet, and paint and/or tape
D) put the liner back on and refill.
E) also find where the liner is leaking and repair

My concern/question is when I remove the top rails, the pool wouldn't fall apart (b/c there will still be water in the pool)? Yes I would have helpers (probably 2-3).
This pool is about 10-11 years old and if it looks really bad, we might just replace the liner this season.
Thanks for any help and comments!
-Charlie
 
It should be ok to remove a top rail or two to survey the damage.
Your plan seems sound to me but as Tex said be mindful of the flexibility of the liner if it is 10 years old. If it’s exhibiting brittleness you don’t wanna tinker with it too much may just want to patch the hole until you can get it replaced. Is it an overlap liner?
 
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Wow you guys are the best!! Thank you for the quick replies and the warm welcome!
In b/t the time I posted and this morning, Ive thought about all the ideas you all have posted and I did get a quote for a liner replacement and it is $1300 just for labor. Yikes! My plan now is most likely to do more research and I believe I will replace the liner myself 😀. I actually will have probably 6-8 helpers lol. In addition I remember back when this was set up the original installers didnt do the vacuum trick and as a result I had quite a few wrinkles. So in some ways I want to do my due diligence and hopefully can do a good job that you guys can be proud of 😀.
Yes I will also get the wall foam which wasnt originally installed.

Im in the middle of deciding what thickness for the liner and where to get it from. im leaning around 25 mil which is just a tad thicker than 25 ga and yes thicker isnt always better. And yes the pool does use overlap and not the bead or unibead (just learned that this morning)
I will keep you guys posted for sure 👍
 
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Is the wall weeping at that spot, or is there a thin stream shooting out? If it is just weeping then I doubt you have a liner leak. My theory is there is condensation that gets trapped between the liner and pool wall that causes the rust in areas where the factory rustproofing was inadequate. I have a link in my signature (RIP 21' Vogue pool) that details the demise of my pool from rust. You may find some of the information helpful to determine a course of action.
When you go to examine the inside pool wall You will need to drain the pool a good deal to be able to move the liner enough to see what is going on. Don't be surprised if you see far more rust on the inside than the outside.
 
zea3 said:
Is the wall weeping at that spot, or is there a thin stream shooting out? If it is just weeping then I doubt you have a liner leak. My theory is there is condensation that gets trapped between the liner and pool wall that causes the rust in areas where the factory rustproofing was inadequate. I have a link in my signature (RIP 21' Vogue pool) that details the demise of my pool from rust. You may find some of the information helpful to determine a course of action.
When you go to examine the inside pool wall You will need to drain the pool a good deal to be able to move the liner enough to see what is going on. Don't be surprised if you see far more rust on the inside than the outside.
Click to expand...
Definitely weeping. It appears there is water between the liner and the outer wall (quite a bit actually). I've lowered the water level below the holes and the weeping has definitely stopped. We found the receipt and the pool was installed June of 2013 and even though it's been 9 years, we really use the heck out of our pool when we open it. Also I can't say 100% my water chemistry has always been the best so that could have contributed to the potential demise. The liner is very worn/white washed looking with a lot of wrinkles, especially on the walls. You can even feel the wrinkles big time. I'm going to try to take a pic of the inside part of the wall but my guess is that there will be some rust (maybe more) and I might as well replace the liner after cleaning all the rust or as much as I can off and spray paint with rustoleum and use the wall foam. I always knew my dewalt rivet gun would come in handy one of these years lol.

I figure if I wait another year the rust might get even more out of control. My two nephews have agreed to help so we are definitely at 6-8 helper yeah!

BTW I teach HS math in NYS and so this would be a great time for me. Tmr is graduation at my HS which I am attending and then next week, pool projecto!

I asked in my previous post but what thickness liner do you experts recommend? THANKS SO MUCH!

UPDATE: Zea3, I just read your story of your vogue pool failure, and that was scary! Now I am thinking maybe even before I order the liner, I should take a look behind the current liner in case the walls are really rusted.
 
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Something to be aware of is the bottom track. Our liner tore after 20 years and we were going to replace it until we took the old liner out and there was no bottom track anymore. Yes there was some rust on the walls that I was thinking of fixing/painting if the wall could handle the screwdriver test but no bottom track meant the pool needed to go. If you do patch the areas with anything metal make sure you use a couple of layers of duct tape over the repair to protect the liner from abrasion or puncture from the metal; might be a good idea even if you use non metal products.
 
VinnyinNJ said:
Something to be aware of is the bottom track. Our liner tore after 20 years and we were going to replace it until we took the old liner out and there was no bottom track anymore. Yes there was some rust on the walls that I was thinking of fixing/painting if the wall could handle the screwdriver test but no bottom track meant the pool needed to go. If you do patch the areas with anything metal make sure you use a couple of layers of duct tape over the repair to protect the liner from abrasion or puncture from the metal; might be a good idea even if you use non metal products.
Click to expand...
Hi Vinny, our pool is about 9 years old and we do still have the tracks, I can see them at certain sections and they look like they are in good shape. Yes for sure with the duct tape on the wall repair and I will most definitely also use a 1/8" wall foam b/t the liner and outer wall. Right now I am just nervous/anxious about what the inside of the walls look like (hoping and expecting not too bad). And with rain most days coming up in NY I can't really do much but I will post a picture of the inside for you all to critique.
 
I'm not sure I would trust an epoxy patch. I do not know how to do the calculations, but since you are a math teacher maybe you know. One of the properties of water is that it will always seek level. Round pools are structurally stronger because water pushes against the walls equally trying to seek level. When you have a weak point the water can force a tear in the metal and the force of water seeking level will split the wall. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon and a full 27 foot round pool holds about 17k gallons. You want a repair that can hold up to those forces.

As for the bottom of the wall, clean up the dirt and check the metal is sound or not. That may be your make or break point.
 
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zea3 said:
I'm not sure I would trust an epoxy patch. I do not know how to do the calculations, but since you are a math teacher maybe you know. One of the properties of water is that it will always seek level. Round pools are structurally stronger because water pushes against the walls equally trying to seek level. When you have a weak point the water can force a tear in the metal and the force of water seeking level will split the wall. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon and a full 27 foot round pool holds about 17k gallons. You want a repair that can hold up to those forces.

As for the bottom of the wall, clean up the dirt and check the metal is sound or not. That may be your make or break point.
Click to expand...
Got it! The bottom feels very sound. Ill just clean with some rust remover and spray with paint meant for galvanizing metal and call it a day. as for the hole i will most likely use sheet metal with rivets. Thanks!!
 
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Major Update: There was a lull in the rain today so I took 3 top rails off, popped one of the tracks off and got these pics:
https://imgur.com/a/L2Ise1a
Pic A, I just want to show how "varicose" the walls looked and it is striking how white washed out the bottom half of the liner is.
Pic B, can someone please confirm that this is an overlap liner? Took me a few minutes to realize how to get it off b/c it was really clipped on. (used mallet with a piece of wood)
Pic C, we can see the immediate cavity. There were at least 2 holes in the liner I can see. I am not sure if the holes in the liner caused the rust or the rust perhaps from condensation caused the holes in the liner but at this pt it doesn't matter.
Pic D, what it looks like after I did some quick wipes. I can't imagine too many AGP walls looking totally rust free after 9 years so I hope this isn't terribly and outlier.

One more pic with closeup of wall:
https://imgur.com/a/WNYUC87

All in all unless someone tells me, "OH NO your pool wall is done", I believe I will go ahead and order the items and proceed. The way things worked out today is a good sign imo :). If I can get 9 or 10 years more again I would be satisfied.

I will get new overlap liner (30 gauge, which is about 26-27 mil), bottom pad, foam cove (duct tape too), definitely wall foam (gladon spray too) and some new SS screws. I will of course clean the walls of rust as much as I can and use the cold galvanizing spray and also patch that hole and any other "potential" weak spots with sheet metal and rivets and duct tape and caulk.

I appreciate your time in my journey and I will wait until tmr to order those items so let me know your thoughts :)
 
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