Pump Issue

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mepcards

mepcards

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2015
351
mesquite,tx
Well over the past 4 years, Ive been very good about running the pump 24hrs during sub-freezing temps, but I totally forgot this time, and left it on the timer. The pump runs approx. 4hrs a day, and it's in the evening until about 11pm. The next day after temps in the lower 20's, my pump would turn on, but just hummed. I assumed the pump was frozen, so I shut off all power to the pump. The next night it dipped down to 19, but during the day, it finally got above 32..I waited until yesterday, since temps rose into the 50's, but the pump is barely working. On low speed, water will not turn, but when I turn it on high, some water is going through the filter, and water is going back into the pool from the return jet, but very very low pressure. Is it possible the pipes still have some ice? Or is the actual pump motor damaged from the freeze?
 
mepcards said:
Is it possible the pipes still have some ice? Or is the actual pump motor damaged from the freeze?
Click to expand...
I personally wouldn't assume the worse yet. Let the system sit for today, maybe tomorrow as well. Temps are suppose to be a little more forgiving the next couple days (at least in our area) and maybe the pump will respond. If you haven't done so already, inspect the entire equipment pad for any potential freeze damage to ensure there are no leaks or ruptures.
 
After the very cold temps we had here in N Texas, my pump is still acting up. It will turn on at the high speed, but runs very slow, and the pressure at zero. If I turn it on low speed, the motor just hums. Could the impellor be partial damaged from the cold? Now one thing I did do while it was barely running, I tapped the side of the motor with my fist, and the motor clicked off. I tapped it a few more times, and it clicked and came back on, but with very poor pressure. Ive checked around for leaks, but not seeing anything, and there is even water flowing from the return jet, but acting like if I had the motor on low speed..Im kicking myself for not remembering to turn pump on for 24hrs...
 
mepcards said:
Is it possible the pipes still have some ice? Or is the actual pump motor damaged from the freeze?
Click to expand...
Both are possible. If pressure is lower than normal, it could be ice in the suction line or the impeller was damaged. My money would be on the impeller as the suction lines should have melted by now. You can remove the motor and impeller from the wet end to inspect.
 
Ok, ill try that this evening...I too was thinking that one of the hose might have froze, and limited flow was getting through because of ice, so I waited when I knew they would be thawed out good. Ill keep yall updated !!!!
 
Well after a nice warm weekend, I tried the pool pump again, and checked the impellor, and it moved great by hand, so that wasn't the issue. When I click to low speed, it runs, but if I turn to high speed, it humms, and will click off, but after about 5-10 seconds, it comes back on humming again...I gave up and having a pool svc guy to come over to look at...have him change my sand while he is there, but wouldn't you know it, the rain back in the forecast...come on summer!!!!!!!!
 

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Well its been 5yrs since its been changed, plus I think im getting some channeling, or poss a broken lateral...when my pump is off, the floor of the pool is crystal clear, but after the pump runs, im getting stuff settling on pool floor..I can actually see a hint of the dirt cloud coming back into the pool from return jet...and i also catch a lot with a skimmer sock, so I thought why not, change it and inspect everything inside..
 
Sand rarely needs to be changed.

If a lateral is damaged, you would be getting filter sand blowing into the pool from the returns.

Fine dust blowing through might be algae, which would require a SLAM.

Fine dust can also be caused by excessive water flow through the sand. Ideally, the flow should be 15 gpm/sqft or less.

For proper backwashing, you want about 15 gpm. More flow causes sand loss. Less flow doesn't give a good backwash.

99.9% of the time, when people want to change the sand, the real issue is chemistry or improper water flow.
 
But this was happening this past summer...I did do the slam and passed with flying colors. What led to me about channeling, is when you get those pesky flying ants for a few weeks a year during the summer, the dead ones at bottom of the pool would get vacuumed up, but come right back through the return jet. That's when I bought the skimmer socks...I would just get done vacuuming, and all these dead ants were settling right back to the bottom, so I put a skimmer sock by the return jet, and sure enough, some were getting by through the filter..
 
24x16 doughboy Summerville..22" Waterway "sand" 1.5 HP 2sp motor....its the same one they installed 5yrs ago, and has always worked great until this past summer...Then I forgot to turn on for 24hrs last week when temps got into the teens...
 
On high speed, the flow is way too much for that filter. On backwash, it might be losing sand.

I would only use low speed. You should never need high speed.

Check to make sure that the internal air relief is capped with a screen and that the filter has enough sand.

Unless the sand is gunked up, it's probably not worthwhile replacing it.
 
Is your pump/filter system like one of these:
16477-22-1-5hp-2sp-twm-sand-system-w-6-twl.jpg

If so, that is a matched pair so the pump should not be overpowered on high speed as it was chosen specifically for that filter. AG pool pump manufactures are notorious for overrating the pump HP (SPL rated) when the true power is actually several sizes smaller.

However, that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with that filter.
 
I wouldn't have too much confidence in Waterway's hydraulic expertise.

They show 20 gpm/sqft, which, in my opinion, is too much.

And, that doesn't explain what pressure the flow rate is calculated at.

During backwash, the pressure is lower, so you will get substantially more than 20 gpm/sqft.

In any case, a 1.5 hp on a single skimmer above ground pool is ridiculous.
 
20 GPM/sq-ft is an ANSI/NSF rating that pretty much all manufactures use. Look at any of the ratings from any manufacture and they will have either 20 or sometimes even 25 gpm/sq-ft. Sand filters are quite robust in their design so I think most can actually handle much more than that and probably do in many installations.

If this is indeed a waterway carefree filter with a HighFlo II pump, at 55 GPM, that pump would have around 53' of head. This is typical head loss and flow rate (i.e. plumbing curve A) for most AG pools. So not unreasonable and if the head was actually measured, I would be surprised if it weren't a little higher than that with lower flow rates given a 22" sand filter has a lot of head loss.

Again AG pumps have HP ratings that are usually quite a bit above IG pump HP ratings for the same head curve so I would not treat this 1.5 HP pump like a IG pump. They are not the same and their head curves are quite a bit different.

@mepcards, what is the filter pressure on high speed?
Also, hopefully you can tell us exactly what model system you have.
 
Even if we accept those numbers as accurate, in my opinion, the flow is excessive for the skimmer, plumbing (probably 1.25") and the filter.

At 1.25", the suction line will have over 14 ft/sec flowing through the pipe or hose.

At 55 gpm, the effectiveness of the filter will be significantly degraded, especially for fine particulate matter.

On backwash, the head loss is typically lower and the flow higher. Probably getting up to or beyond 30 gpm/sqft, which creates a significant risk of entraining sand in the effluent.

That filter does not have a lot of sand to begin with. If it loses sand on each backwash, the sand depth will be below specifications and will result in further degradation of the filter's effectiveness.

In any case, I don't see any reason to ever use high speed. Low speed should give the best results for filtering or backwash.
 
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