Ph vs CSI

[DerrikM]

I have always had a proble with rising pH but have been able to control with additions of muratic acid. However readings today and 3 days ago have me stumped.
3 days ago pH was 8.8, TA 75, CH 850, Salt 4000, Bor 50, temp 47, CSI 0.00. In order to get pH down somewhat I added 24 oz acid. According to pool math that should have lowered pH to 8.2 (still high), TA to about 66, and lower CSI to -0.060.

Today pH was 8.8, TA 80 CSI 0.00. All other test were pretty much the same as 3 days ago. According to pool math I can add 48 oz of acid and get numbers to pH 7.6, TA 61 AND CSI -0.340.

What should I do. Have never pH swings this larg, this fast. How much does pH matter if CSI is close to 0.0?

I live in Texas and have lots of live oak trees that will be starting to shed their leave and then shed pollin into the pool. I will be draining a subatantial a

 

[DerrikM]

previous post continued.....
Tree problems will be done by end of March or mid April. I will be draining pool water to get CH down. By keeping a close eye on my CSI I have been able to control scaling as evidenced by the fact that I have never had to acid wash my Salt Generator in the 2 1/2 years that I have had it.

 

[Newdude]

Welcome Back Derrik !!!

Today pH was 8.8,

How are you testing ? With a PH meter ? Which one ?

By keeping a close eye on my CSI I have been able to control scaling as evidenced by the fact that I have never had to acid wash my Salt Generator in the 2 1/2 years that I have had it.

Nice. Keep up the good work. An ounce of prevention whoops a pound of cure, and whatnot.

 

[proavia]

What test kit are you using? Add it to your signature.

 

[DerrikM]

Welcome Back Derrik !!!


How are you testing ? With a PH meter ? Which one ?

Nice. Keep up the good work. An ounce of prevention whoops a pound of cure, and whatnot.

Because of my sometimes crazy pH I have always paid close attention to CSI. I guess it really does pay off. I have always tested with the Taylor K-2006C. Have thought about a pH meter. But so many out there with procing all over the place. Are they actually better than the drop test? What would be a good one to buy?

 

[mknauss]

You cannot measure a pH of 8.8 with the drop test in that kit.

 

[Newdude]

You cannot measure a pH of 8.8 with the drop test in that kit.

What about the acid demand test ? Can't you reverse engineer an estimate of how high the PH is (albeit it not very accurate) with the K2006 ?

 

[mknauss]

What about the acid demand test ?

Yes. With very poor accuracy.

 

[duraleigh]

I am afraid you need to start from the beginning before we can be much help. What wild pH swings are you talking about? you only report 8.8 and 8.8. Secondly, as Marty says, you can't test 8.8 with your kit. It only goes to 8.2

Paying close attention to csi is not helping you........it is obscuring the process you should be undertaking. Learning some basics about pH and chlorine (have you tested it?) will get you back on track.

Please read "Pool Care Basics" and then post a complete set of test results from your K-2006C. How OLD is it?

 

[Texas Splash]

Derrik, I'm probably east of you in Guadalupe Co past Randolph AFB. You probably get your water from the Edwards aquifer, but it seems odd that your CH would be so high. You haven't used any Cal-Hypo products recently have you? I looked at your Poolmath logs and am also concerned about what appears to be a very high pH, but as noted above we can't get an accurate pH that high. Maybe we can see some pics of your pH test or you could confirm the reagent you are using? No aeration running correct? I also noticed a low water temp or 49 in your logs. I don't think mine ever went below 50, or maybe once back in Dec when had those freeze warnings. My water temp is now slightly over 60. Are you sure about that water temp? Is that temp from an SWG senor or a thermometer?

If you didn't know already, we're a persistent bunch of TFP'ers who are happy to help, so feel free to take advantage of us.

 

[DerrikM]

Because of my sometimes crazy pH I have always paid close attention to CSI. I guess it really does pay off. I have always tested with the Taylor K-2006C. Have thought about a pH meter. But so many out there with procing all over the place. Are they actually better than the drop test? What would be a good one to buy?

I realize that the colors onthe vial do not allow me to go to 8.8 but I figured out a work around that, while not perfect, shouldget me somewhat close. When I realize the my red is much darker than the colors on the vile, I use the acid demand drops and count til it get to my target. I then go to the Taylor booklet and find the amount of acid to get there. Then I put that amount in the Pool Math app to see how much that amount of acid will lower my pH. That allows me to get a fairly good estimation of my pH. Does that make any sense?

 

[Texas Splash]

Does that make any sense?

It does, but if a pH truly is that high the acid demand process may become skewed a bit. That's why it's best to go slowly in stages if a pH is suspected of being very high. I think it was noted above, but if someone's pH is well over 8.2., use only enough acid (for now) to get the pH down to about 7.8-8.0. We don't want to over-shoot too low or drive your TA down too low at one time. If the acid dosing is accurate, the acid should take effect relatively fast allowing you to do a follow up test in an hour or two.

 

[DerrikM]

Derrik, I'm probably east of you in Guadalupe Co past Randolph AFB. You probably get your water from the Edwards aquifer, but it seems odd that your CH would be so high. You haven't used any Cal-Hypo products recently have you? I looked at your Poolmath logs and am also concerned about what appears to be a very high pH, but as noted above we can't get an accurate pH that high. Maybe we can see some pics of your pH test or you could confirm the reagent you are using? No aeration running correct? I also noticed a low water temp or 49 in your logs. I don't think mine ever went below 50, or maybe once back in Dec when had those freeze warnings. My water temp is now slightly over 60. Are you sure about that water temp? Is that temp from an SWG senor or a thermometer?

If you didn't know already, we're a persistent bunch of TFP'ers who are happy to help, so feel free to take advantage of us.

Have nevery used Cal Hypo since pool was refinished about 2 1/2 years ago. I use fresh, genuine Taylor reagents from my K-2006C kit. I have had rapid ph bounce ever since pool refinish. I do keep a very close eye on CSI and adjust to keep that in line. I am planning to do a partial drain and refill as soon as Live Oak trees are finished doing their thing in the next 45 days or so. I haven't done a fill water test in quite a while but will do one in the next day or so.

Temp might be a few degree off as I did not actually test today. But not off by much. Up until a few days ago we were in the 40s most every night.

Quote from above reply concerning how I computed pH:
I realize that the colors onthe vial do not allow me to go to 8.8 but I figured out a work around that, while not perfect, shouldget me somewhat close. When I realize the my red is much darker than the colors on the vile, I use the acid demand drops and count til it get to my target. I then go to the Taylor booklet and find the amount of acid to get there. Then I put that amount in the Pool Math app to see how much that amount of acid will lower my pH. That allows me to get a fairly good estimation of my pH. Does that make any sense?

 

[duraleigh]

All threads start better with a complete set of test results. Please tell us......

pH (report 8.8 if you say so)
FC -
CC -
TA -
CYA -
CH -

Given that info, we can help. What swings in pH are you talking about?

 

[Texas Splash]

Another thought ..... have you tested your house/fill water pH? Might be reassuring to see another source with a reasonable pH you would expect (i.e. 7.6-7.8). Your local water should not be as high as your pool seems to be. But if your home water is showing high, there is something else going on with the testing.

 

[Texas Splash]

 

[Texas Splash]

To be safe, your pH solution is the R-0004 correct?

 

[DerrikM]

I am afraid you need to start from the beginning before we can be much help. What wild pH swings are you talking about? you only report 8.8 and 8.8. Secondly, as Marty says, you can't test 8.8 with your kit. It only goes to 8.2

Paying close attention to csi is not helping you........it is obscuring the process you should be undertaking. Learning some basics about pH and chlorine (have you tested it?) will get you back on track.

Please read "Pool Care Basics" and then post a complete set of test results from your K-2006C. How OLD is it?

All threads start better with a complete set of test results. Please tell us......

pH (report 8.8 if you say so)
FC -
CC -
TA -
CYA -
CH -

Given that info, we can help. What swings in pH are you talking about?

TODAY
FC - 6
CC - 0
PH - 8.8
TA - 80
CH - 850
CYA - 60
SALT - 4000
BOR - 50
TEMP - 49
CSI - 0.00

FEB 19 - ADDED 24 OZ MURATIC ACIC AFTER THIS TESTING
FC - 5
CC - 0
PH - 8.8
TA - 80
CH - 850
CYA - 60
SALT - 4000
BOR - 50
TEMP - 44
CSI - -0.33

Feel free to access my complete test logs if you think they will help.

 

[DerrikM]

To be safe, your pH solution is the R-0004 correct?

R-0004 is correct and it is fresh

 

[mknauss]

With 50 borates, the 24 oz of MA you added would not lower your pH by 0.1 units.

You need to use Poolmath to determine acid volumes needed to lower pH. Do not lower by more than 0.4 units at a time.

By my calculations, you need 1 gallon of 31.45% MA to lower the pH by 0.4 units. Check those figures yourself.