Pentair Intellicenter heater terminals always connected

[toidi]

Hi all, I'm trying to get my Raypak heater connected to my intellicenter but am having some problems. It seems as though both the gas and electric terminals on the intellicenter's circuit board are in a always on configuration. I'm wondering if there's some setting someplace in the software to disable that as I find it hard to believe that both circuits are screwed up, especially being two different heater circuits.

What I've noticed is if I put a meter on both the gas terminals as well as the electric heater pins I'm getting connectivity (single to turn the heater on) even if nothing is turned on. Visually I can also see the LED light Infront of the electric heater pins as always being on, with our without any heaters configured and with or without the pool being on. What's also odd is I have no continutity between the two solar heater pins so that relay should be open but when I connect the heater's control wires to that port it turns on. I snipped the connections to test and it's for sure open so I'm not sure what's going on. If the cable is disconnected from the intellicenter the heater is in the off setting, but once connected, even to a port that has no connectivity it turns on.

Pentair thinks it's a bad board, but at 600-1300 replacement (1 year warranty... on a 2 year system... joy) I'm really hoping its not the case. The only other heater relay that's on the board and doesn't have it's LED lit is the solar connector.

Any thoughts on what could be the problem?

 

[ajw22]

What IntelliCenter firmware version are you running?

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[toidi]

What IntelliCenter firmware version are you running?

Pentair Automation Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I've tried 2.017, 1.064 and an earlier one 1.04?? I've also tried reverting to factory settings.

What was also interesting is I have no heaters defined, system was off and there's no continuity between the two solar heater leads and the LED is off, so confirmed it's off. Once I connect the heater's control wire the solar light pop's on and tested there's continuity (on position). If these act as a controllable relay with no heaters defined I would assume it would always be in the off position but for some reason it keeps turning it on. Maybe the solar heater leads act differently than the electric or gas.

After a factory reset and trying different firmware both the gas and electric contacts are in the closed (on) position upon reboot.

 

[ajw22]

To be clear, if the board is not powered the heater relay terminals are open?

When you power up the board the heater relay terminals are closed.

And no wires are connected to the heater relay terminals?

Sounds like you have a bad relay driver chip on the board.

Unfortunately the IntelliCenter boards are less serviceable then the EasyTouch boards. @ogdento has a few boards he can look at and see if he has any ideas.

 

[toidi]

To be clear, if the board is not powered the heater relay terminals are open?

When you power up the board the heater relay terminals are closed.

And no wires are connected to the heater relay terminals?

Sounds like you have a bad relay driver chip on the board.

Unfortunately the IntelliCenter boards are less serviceable then the EasyTouch boards. @ogdento has a few boards he can look at and see if he has any ideas.

Correct, when the board doesn't have power the terminals are open, upon receiving power (system still booting) the terminals are closed. For the solar connection, with or without a solar heater configured, once I connect the heat pump to the two wires the terminal automatically closes when it's open with nothing connected.

If the board is screwed up, I'm going to try to use the AUX4 relay but even with that I'm not sure how that works... when I turn it on I don't get a closed circuit between the line and load terminals. Maybe that one is bad too??

 

[ajw22]

Correct, when the board doesn't have power the terminals are open, upon receiving power (system still booting) the terminals are closed.

That points to a board problem.

For the solar connection, with or without a solar heater configured, once I connect the heat pump to the two wires the terminal automatically closes when it's open with nothing connected.

Do you have a sensor connected to the solar temperature or a 10K resistor connected to it? You need the solar sensor connected for the HP to operate properly.

If the board is screwed up, I'm going to try to use the AUX4 relay but even with that I'm not sure how that works... when I turn it on I don't get a closed circuit between the line and load terminals. Maybe that one is bad too??

Do you get 24V DC at the AUX4 relay socket?

Could be the board or the relay that is bad.

Do your other AUX relays work? If so, plug the AUX4 relay into a socket that works and see what happens.

 

[toidi]

That points to a board problem.



Do you have a sensor connected to the solar temperature or a 10K resistor connected to it? You need the solar sensor connected for the HP to operate properly.



Do you get 24V DC at the AUX4 relay socket?

Could be the board or the relay that is bad.

Do your other AUX relays work? If so, plug the AUX4 relay into a socket that works and see what happens.

It appears aux4 is bad, the others work fine. When I activate the other aux's you can hear it click closed, aux4 doesn't make any noise.

I don't have a resister on the air sensor, the app says it's registering 154 degrees... I ordered one from ebay so I'll add it when it gets here and give it a go.

 

[ajw22]

It appears aux4 is bad, the others work fine. When I activate the other aux's you can hear it click closed, aux4 doesn't make any noise.

Sounds like you have some funky things going on with your board.

Any history on it?

Did it get hit by a lightning strike on or near the house or a power glitch?

I don't have a resister on the air sensor, the app says it's registering 154 degrees... I ordered one from ebay so I'll add it when it gets here and give it a go.

A 10K resistor will also work and cost less.

 

[ogdento]

It does sound at least one of the relay drivers is bad. The drivers are labelled U4 and U7 on the board... they're UN2003A chips, and each one controls 7 relays although I haven't yet mapped out which relays go to which chip. Many thanks to Pentair for soldering these to the board rather than using easy to replace, socketed parts.



The chips are pretty small, but replacing them is doable with a little care and patience... just be aware they not oriented the same (U7 is rotated 180 degrees from U4). pin1's location on each chip is nearest to the U4/U7 labels - i.e. in the photo, U7's pin1 and label are near the lower right of the chip, whereas U4's pin1 and label are near the top left of the chip.

 

[toidi]

A 10K resistor will also work and cost less.

I ordered a 8.2k resister, the pentair tech said one between 8-9k. Should I have gotten a 10k one? It takes 2+ weeks to ship anything here so we'll see if that makes any difference for the solar heat source.

 

[toidi]

It does sound at least one of the relay drivers is bad. The drivers are labelled U4 and U7 on the board... they're UN2003A chips, and each one controls 7 relays although I haven't yet mapped out which relays go to which chip. Many thanks to Pentair for soldering these to the board rather than using easy to replace, socketed parts.

View attachment 548372

The chips are pretty small, but replacing them is doable with a little care and patience... just be aware they not oriented the same (U7 is rotated 180 degrees from U4). pin1's location on each chip is nearest to the U4/U7 labels - i.e. in the photo, U7's pin1 and label are near the lower right of the chip, whereas U4's pin1 and label are near the top left of the chip.

This is great info thanks! If the solar doesn't work I'll give this a shot. I haven't soldered anything since I was in school may, many years ago but it's worth a shot.

 

[ajw22]

I ordered a 8.2k resister, the pentair tech said one between 8-9k. Should I have gotten a 10k one? It takes 2+ weeks to ship anything here so we'll see if that makes any difference for the solar heat source.

8.2K will work. It should read 85F.

 

[toidi]

8.2K will work. It should read 85F.

Ah great thanks for the chart. Question though - does that mean the max temp that the "solar heater" (in quotes because I'll be using a heat pump...) can go with the Intellicenter is +/- 3 degrees from 85? When I add a solar heater, it has a start temp delta of 3F, and a stop of 2F. So I'm wondering if that's related to the air temp that I'll be tricking it or if it's unrelated. I want to use this to heat both the pool and spa at different temps. Pool to around 86-87 (wife won't go in a "cold" pool... and spa to 100.

 

[ajw22]

Ah great thanks for the chart. Question though - does that mean the max temp that the "solar heater" (in quotes because I'll be using a heat pump...) can go with the Intellicenter is +/- 3 degrees from 85? When I add a solar heater, it has a start temp delta of 3F, and a stop of 2F. So I'm wondering if that's related to the air temp that I'll be tricking it or if it's unrelated. I want to use this to heat both the pool and spa at different temps. Pool to around 86-87 (wife won't go in a "cold" pool... and spa to 100.

No. That sensor has no effect on your Heat Pump.