Newbie needs SLAMing advice, and how much sodium hypochlorite in Clorox Bleach?

[Darlene13]

Well hello you! Good to see you again! When I started reading about the basket I was thinking it would be the tube block off (aka sand shield) for when you add sand to make sure the sand does not get inside the tube. BUT it should have a way for it to sit over the top of the tube to keep the shield up and to cover the tube.

Does it look like someone cut something off of the basket?

Hey, Kim!!!!! No, it doesn't look like it.

Do you have someone that can hold the tube while you pull on the basket? If not I guess you could wiggle, wiggle, wiggle the tube until it starts to come up. Watch for the laterals on the bottom. They will have to fold up or twist off to come out of the filter.

I don't think that standpipe is going to come up while the sand filter is full of sand!! And I cannot start to scoop the sand out until that darn basket is out of the way! My hands aren't very big, and even I cannot get my hand around the black basket to reach down. And there is no way that I can even get a container past that basket for scooping. And what is that basket doing there anyway? It doesn't sound like it is the sand shield as you describe, because there is nothing preventing sand from going into the standpipe.

I am glad you are able to see the bottom. That is huge!

It is! And I haven't added any chlorine in for a very long time. Shame on me, I know, but I thought since the weather was so cold that there isn't much likelihood for algae growth. It's remained clear all September, even though the water has been too cold for swimming.

On another note: I did as you suggested and took the skimmer plate off the vacuum hose and plugged right into the skimmer, and that works much better. However, if I don't vacuum on waste, I can see all the debris coming right back into the pool via the return jet. There is definitely something not right with the sand filter. However, with my flashlight, I can see past the black basket in the sand filter and surprisingly it is still full of sand! I didn't think that it would be, but it is. And there is very little debris on the surface of the sand. Not at all what I was expecting!

I just really need to figure out how to get that basket off! I keep trying to wiggle it but it is not budging.

 

[Darlene13]

And I found the instruction manual for my particular sand filter model, and that black basket is not even pictured in the diagram or listed on the parts list!

 

[kimkats]

I looked up all of the different models trying to find one that has that kind of basket. I could only find one that had any kind of basket and it was like I was talking about-sand stopper to be removed once the sand is in.

I would get some big, bad cutters and cut it off. Being VERY careful to not mess up the tube.

Kim

 

[zea3]

Hey, everyone!!!

Here we are, it's October, down to single-digits and I'm still working on the pool!!! My cousin helped me install two union fittings...still need to go back and add photos of that...and replaced the flexible hose at the skimmer with poly-pipe which I had on hand and clamps and no more leaks there! Looks so much better! I know it's not PVC, but it's better than it was and finances are extremely tight for me right now.

So, the rain is turning to snowflakes and I need to bite the bullet and crack open the sand filter and see what the heck is going on. The good news is that I CAN see to the bottom of the pool now, so that I can see that there is sand down there Will upload a pic of that later. Right now, I need help with the sand filter!

After much cursing and bloody knuckles, I finally was able to get the top off the sand filter by dismantling the waste pipe from the outside of the garage and pulling that hose inside and twisting the whole unit over. See here:

Here is the inside, but what is that basket and how do I remove it? I don't recall seeing that in the videos for how to deep-clean a sand filter. I'm trying to turn it to see if it will lift off, but it doesn't seem to be coming. Help!

That black basket you are looking at is the bottom part of the multi-port valve. I don't know why it did not come off with the rest of the multi-port valve, but it is not a separate part. It may be stuck to the stand pipe, but it should pull straight off. If you look at it here in close up mode (hover mouse over the area you want to zoom in) it looks like it should snap together where it is notched. I would put on some work gloves to protect your knuckles and try to work it off the stand pipe.

EDIT: Ok, that basket is called the diffuser and it is available as a separate part. The diffuser is shown here upside down.

 

[Darlene13]

I would get some big, bad cutters and cut it off. Being VERY careful to not mess up the tube.

Geez, there is NOTHING about this pool that has been easy! Was anything put together right?!? Grrrrrr, just so frustrated!

 

[Darlene13]

That black basket you are looking at is the bottom part of the multi-port valve. I don't know why it did not come off with the rest of the multi-port valve, but it is not a separate part. It may be stuck to the stand pipe, but it should pull straight off. If you look at it here in close up mode (hover mouse over the area you want to zoom in) it looks like it should snap together where it is notched. I would put on some work gloves to protect your knuckles and try to work it off the stand pipe.

Hi, zea3! It's night-time here now, and only 4 degrees so I'm not heading out just now...but I do believe that you are correct about the notches on the side. I am pretty sure that I saw them.

I don't have any idea either why this part of the multi-port is stuck to the standpipe. Believe me, I tried to pull and pull and wiggle it a bit back and forth but it's stuck!! What if I put a little bit of Jack's Multi-lube on the standpipe right above where it's stuck? If I can manage to wiggle it just enough and get it up a bit, then it should slide off nice and easy!?!

EDIT: Ok, that basket is called the diffuser and it is available as a separate part. The diffuser is shown here upside down.

That url isn't working, but thanks for your help, zea3! At least now I know what it is and I'll try to remove it without breaking it (I hope!).

 

[zea3]

Try this one. The other one was an expanded view so it probably needs to be from the original page. If your multi-part valve is newer you may not be able to get parts for it. I know mine the whole valve has to be replaced. Yours was made in 2006 according to the manual.

I also found a link here from someone with a stuck diffuser. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/53220-How-to-remove-stuck-multiport-diffuser

 

[kimkats]

zea to the rescue! That link to the post about their stuck basket helps I bet!

Good luck and let us know what you find when it is NOT 4 burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr degrees!

Kim

 

[Darlene13]

Try this one. The other one was an expanded view so it probably needs to be from the original page. If your multi-part valve is newer you may not be able to get parts for it. I know mine the whole valve has to be replaced. Yours was made in 2006 according to the manual.

Yes, that is what it looks like, at least from my view which is the inside of it.

I also found a link here from someone with a stuck diffuser. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/53220-How-to-remove-stuck-multiport-diffuser

Awesome, zea3! Just got back from Canadian Tire and bought some silicone spray. I used a knife and worked my way all around the standpipe and sprayed between the knife and the standpipe, and then rocked the diffuser back and forth. It didn't seem like it was doing much, but now I can't even get my fingers around the diffuser because the top edge of it is now nearly flush with the bottom of the opening. Sorry that the photo quality isn't that great, but it's dark outside and the light in the garage isn't so good:

Any ideas as to what I can hook through the holes that won't break the plastic so that I can try to pull upwards? But honestly, I am doubtful that it will budge any further.

 

[Darlene13]

Good luck and let us know what you find when it is NOT 4 burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr degrees!

Still 4 degrees here, Kim. I'm afraid it's not looking good for the rest of the week! Only going to get colder, so I need to get 'er done!! But not having much luck!

 

[kimkats]

WOW! That picture sure does show what you are up against as far as room or NO room for fingers.

Okay so thinking out loud-you need to get the basket up. In order to do that you will need a way to lift all the way around to keep it level. You have to be able to hold it with out hurting your hands.

Do you have any wire hangers or plastic coated wire? If so you can put a small curve on the end. Pass it through one hole, turn it so the curved end pokes up through the hole beside the one you went down. Pull it until you have equal parts and secure it while you do this in as many areas as you have wire. I am thinking at least 4 areas.

Once you have done this you can make a loop you can pull on all at the same time or you can rock it a tiny bit at a time to break the hold it has on the pipe.

I hope you understand what I am seeing in my head.

HUGS!

Kim

 

[Darlene13]

I hope you understand what I am seeing in my head.

Yes, I totally get what you are saying, Kim! My dad was by today, and he didn't have any luck. I went to the pool store, and the guy that's been helping me with this plumbing project all summer knocks off early at this time of year to do pool closures for customers. The lady there suggested that I email him the photos and see what he thinks, but she thought that I probably will have to break it to get it off. I'll email him tonight and see what he says.

Yeesh, it was 0 degrees when I woke up this morning. This needs to get done before the water freezes in the pipes!

 

[Mikesuze]

Your tenacity is amazing. I know you'll conquer these issues.

 

[kimkats]

I think you should go ahead and drain it like you used to. You can still work on the filter with the pipes ready for winter?

It is really sounding like the cutting off is going to be the only way. BUT of course that will mean buying replacement stuff

Hugs!

Kim

 

[Darlene13]

Your tenacity is amazing. I know you'll conquer these issues.

Awwwww, thanks Mikesuze! I sure hope so!!

 

[Darlene13]

I think you should go ahead and drain it like you used to. You can still work on the filter with the pipes ready for winter?

It is really sounding like the cutting off is going to be the only way. BUT of course that will mean buying replacement stuff

The pool guy is coming on Wednesday. As it turns out, the weather is going to be beautiful for the next five days, looking at highs of 15-17 degrees Celsius (that's 59-62 Fahrenheit). That's GORGEOUS autumn weather for these parts, LOL!! The weather is cooperating, and I finally have someone who can give me hand, but it's going to cost $$$. The quote was $400 to get the sand filter back up and running (after removing all the sand and checking the laterals and filling with new sand). He may also need to replace/repair connections along the way, as I've noticed that the old connections (not the ones that I've replaced over the summer) have become loose with all the pulling and tugging and twisting.

I will actually smile when this pool is shut down for the winter! It's been very labour-intensive I really hope that next year, it will be trouble-free!

 

[kimkats]

Good stuff! Too bad it is going to cost money but it will pay off in the end. When you go to open your pool in the summer it WILL be trouble free for once.

Let us know what he finds so we can all learn from you. "What happens if?"

Kim

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

It may not ever be totally "Trouble Free" but once you get past your present troubles with some routine TFP maintenance and care you should be spending more time enjoying the water vs. fighting sudden green blooms. Older installations will always suffer some from things falling apart but that's to be expected.
You've really earned your stripes with your persistence

 

[donspublic]

Darlene, I have just spent 1 hour going thru this thread. I am totally impressed with you and what you have done here. The extent of my wife's relationship to our pool is "are you going to take care of that or do we need to get someone out". I might pay for you to have a vacation in Houston in the winter and you can come get my pool in shape . Please keep us updated with your results. Again this is like reading a novel that you know will have a happy ending. Good Luck

 

[Darlene13]

Let us know what he finds so we can all learn from you. "What happens if?"

Hey, Kim!! Alrighty, so the pool guy came out on Oct 15th. Fabulous guy, by the way. He's very nice. He did manage to get the diffuser off the standpipe without breaking it. He was able to insert tools into the holes (like Kim's coat-hanger method) and he has more strength than me so he was able to do it! Unfortunately, I was in the house making supper and wasn't actually able to watch him get it off. When I saw him sitting at the picnic table with the standpipe, I went outside. Just as I noticed even through the holes in the diffuser, the sand filter was indeed still full of sand! From what I could see, it did not look "channeled" and the pool guy said my sand actually looks pretty good and he could certainly put it back in instead of fresh sand. I figured we may as well eliminate everything as an issue and went with new sand. He used Zeobryte.

Now, for the standpipe and laterals: Guess what?? Nothing broken! He removed all the laterals and cleaned them and put everything back together. He said that it all looks good, certainly no reason that he could tell why I was getting such large debris coming via the return jet back into the pool. He inspected the spider gasket on the multi-port, which you may recall that I just replaced this summer to eliminate as an issue. He said it all looks good. He hooked everything back up and put a new connection and union on my waste pipe to make it easier to get into the sand filter in the future. I will upload pics of all that later. Because the water level had fallen so low (we think the pool water was flowing backwards and up through the chlorinator and to the solar panels and then out through the pipe from the solar panels because my dad removed the caps on the solar panel pipes so that they could drain). For some reason, the water level had fallen below the return jet and the water kept trickling from the solar panel pipe at the top of the roof, so this is what the pool guy thinks happened. So, because we needed to add water to the pool, we could not fire up the sand filter. He left me with instructions to backwash and rinse for three cycles because of the addition of the new sand. I followed his instructions, and the water looked clear in the sight glass but when I caught it from the waste pipe in a clear measuring cup, it looked a bit cloudy. See here:

What I did notice while I was backwashing/rinsing was that the psi on the sand filter did not budge from zero. Back in the summer, I had taken photos of the gauge during backwash and rinse, and it definitely had pressure.

This is from July, in Backwash Mode:

This is from July, in Rinse Mode:

As you can see, the psi was about the same in both Backwash and Rinse modes, but it definitely had pressure above zero before!

This is from July, in Filter Mode (with solar panels closed):

And this is now, in Filter Mode (with solar panels closed):

As you can see, it barely budges from zero. The force of the water coming into the pool via the return jet is not as forceful as it was before. I also noticed that when I was backwashing/rinsing, that the force of the pressure wasn't there. When I put my fingers down the skimmer hole, it still pulls but again not like before.

So, experts, what do you think is going on now?? I emailed my pool guy and waiting to hear back from him. I really need to get this pool closed, as you can see from all the leaves on the ground in the first pic!!

Thanks a bunch!

- - - Updated - - -

It may not ever be totally "Trouble Free" but once you get past your present troubles with some routine TFP maintenance and care you should be spending more time enjoying the water vs. fighting sudden green blooms. Older installations will always suffer some from things falling apart but that's to be expected.
You've really earned your stripes with your persistence

Thanks, kiss4afrog! I think I'm past the green water problem. I think now it's the equipment! Believe it or not, I won't be sad to have this pool closed for the season. It's been a LOT of work!! But I learned a ton