New Pool Owner

[EricT504]

Good Afternoon,

New User here but I've been lurking through the forums for awhile gathering knowledge. I'd like some insight into whether I'm heading in what I THINK is the right direction. Planning to test again tonight.
PH:8.3
TA:175
FC:5.5
CC:0
CH: 585-625 <---- I may not have added drops quickly enough while stirring but titrated within this range
CYA:75
Salt: 3200
Temp: 73°F
After testing a couple of hours ago I added 44 oz. MA 31.45%. I'm attempting to get my TA down to 80 or so. I have 3 returns aimed at the surface to raise my PH faster while doing this.
My local water source contains very hard water so my thinking was, in order to balance my pool water I need to lower the TA to at least 80 and shoot for a PH between 7.0-7.3. I'm expecting
the pool temps to settle somewhere in the 80s? Anyways, would love to hear any advice on what I'm trying to do and if I'm heading in the right direction. Thanks.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Eric, good going on the MA to lower TA, but you also need it to lower your pH. A pH of 8.3 is entirely too high...and may be higher and requiring repeated acid dosing. Go slow and take it down a little at a time, repeatedly.
Your acid additions with have a side benefit of dropping the TA....your high TA is what "pulls up" the pH.

Test your fill water to determine what the baseline Calcium level is? Have you been using any Calhypo products to sanitize with? Report back on this, please.

Your CYA is considered 80ppm.... use the FC/CYA chart to guide your FC aims. www.troublefreepool.com/blog/what-are-my-ideal-pool-levels/

Maddie

 

[YippeeSkippy]

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Managing your cyanuric acid and Free Chlorine levels is key to stabilizing your pool. Learn how these two items affect each other.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolStored]

After testing a couple of hours ago I added 44 oz. MA 31.45%. I'm attempting to get my TA down to 80 or so. I have 3 returns aimed at the surface to raise my PH faster while doing this.
My local water source contains very hard water so my thinking was, in order to balance my pool water I need to lower the TA to at least 80 and shoot for a PH between 7.0-7.3. I'm expecting
the pool temps to settle somewhere in the 80s? Anyways, would love to hear any advice on what I'm trying to do and if I'm heading in the right direction. Thanks.

You want to lower your pH in .4 increments. If you are using PoolMath, you will see a note that indicates pH changes are accurate in only a narrow range (effects of adding page). You should not attempt to lower your TA from 175 to 80 in one fells swoop, you can crash pH. Not good. Please go out and recheck your pH. Effects of adding indicate that 44oz will lower pH by 1.6. You may be in the 6s.

To lower your TA, it will take a while. I can lower TA by 10 in 12 hours. I lower pH to 7.0, let it rise to 7.4, lower to 7.0 and repeat. Between 7.0 and 7.4 CO2 outgasses at the highest rate. All the while I run an aerator like the picture below. It is built on a sump pump. The TRICK to raising pH is to create A LOT of LITTLE bubbles.

How to do it right:

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

When you get to a TA of 60-80, you will likely find that your pH will stabilize somewhere between 7.8 and 8.0. That is ok. No need to force it down to 7.0-7.3. Anything with a 7, and even when you get to 8, it is fine. When you do lower it again, during general maintenance, just lower it to 7.6-7.8. If you lower it to 7-7.3, you are just going to continue to lower TA. It will find an equilibrium with TA 60-80 and pH about 7.8-8.

Here is some good reading:

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Aerator.jpg

• PoolStored
• Sep 11, 2022
• 2

 

[EricT504]

Thanks for the feedback!
Just tested fill water CH:400. Finished SLAM yesterday and was using liquid chlorine throughout. I wasn't able to get accurate readings until today because my FC was above 10.
Also, tested pool again since adding MA at around 5:00 pm cst today.
PH 7.4
TA:175 <------- thought this would have went down after adding 44oz?
FC:6.0
CC:0

Thanks for the links!

 

[EricT504]

You want to lower your pH in .4 increments. If you are using PoolMath, you will see a note that indicates pH changes are accurate in only a narrow range (effects of adding page). You should not attempt to lower your TA from 175 to 80 in one fells swoop, you can crash pH. Not good. Please go out and recheck your pH. Effects of adding indicate that 44oz will lower pH by 1.6. You may be in the 6s.

To lower your TA, it will take a while. I can lower TA by 10 in 12 hours. I lower pH to 7.0, let it rise to 7.4, lower to 7.0 and repeat. Between 7.0 and 7.4 CO2 outgasses at the highest rate. All the while I run an aerator like the picture below. It is built on a sump pump. The TRICK to raising pH is to create A LOT of LITTLE bubbles.

How to do it right:

Lower Total Alkalinity

A lower Total Alkalinity level can help a pool owner stabalize their pH increase. We'll explain how to lower TA with a little help from muriatic acid.

www.troublefreepool.com

When you get to a TA of 60-80, you will likely find that your pH will stabilize somewhere between 7.8 and 8.0. That is ok. No need to force it down to 7.0-7.3. Anything with a 7, and even when you get to 8, it is fine. When you do lower it again, during general maintenance, just lower it to 7.6-7.8. If you lower it to 7-7.3, you are just going to continue to lower TA. It will find an equilibrium with TA 60-80 and pH about 7.8-8.

Here is some good reading:

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Aerator.jpg

• PoolStored
• Sep 11, 2022
• 2

Thank you very much for the tips, I'll start applying this advice asap instead of trying to fell swoop it down!

 

[PoolStored]

TA:175 <------- thought this would have went down after adding 44oz?

Probably testing error. Happens all the time. Also, are you wiping the tip of the r-0009 with a wet cloth each time you drop a drop? It builds a static charge, and alters the size of the drops. Wiping it eliminate the charge. Also, your bottle needs to be vertical and you need to drop your drops really slowly so that the drop drops on its own weight. Squeeze really slowly. Finally, do you have a speed stir? It really helps with accuracy.

Extended Test Kit Directions Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

Total Alkalinity

A drop-based test used to measure the alkalinity in water. Alkalinity helps serve as a … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolStored]

Also, to be really clear on the .4 drops in pH. You can lower pH from 8 to 7. Just do it in .4 increments. Do .4, then circulate for 30 minutes, do another acid addition.

 

[proavia]

Are you hand swirling or using a SpeedStir/SmartStir device for the CH test?
I've found using one of the stir devices make the CH test (and others) more accurate and repeatable.

On the CYA test - the scale on the test vial is logarithmic, not linear. You can't estimate between the marked lines. If it is over 70 and less that 80, round up to 80.

 

[EricT504]

Probably testing error. Happens all the time. Also, are you wiping the tip of the r-0009 with a wet cloth each time you drop a drop? It builds a static charge, and alters the size of the drops. Wiping it eliminate the charge. Also, your bottle needs to be vertical and you need to drop your drops really slowly so that the drop drops on its own weight. Squeeze really slowly. Finally, do you have a speed stir? It really helps with accuracy.

Extended Test Kit Directions Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

Total Alkalinity

A drop-based test used to measure the alkalinity in water. Alkalinity helps serve as a … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

I haven't been wiping each drop but I have been trying to squeeze slowly while vertical. I'll start doing that for better accuracy. I do not have a speed stir at the moment but it has been on my mind to pick one up. I'll go ahead and order one tonight and make life easier. I've just been swirling by hand.

 

[PoolStored]

I do not have a speed stir at the moment but it has been on my mind to pick one up. I'll go ahead and order one tonight and make life easier. I've just been swirling by hand.

It is a game changer, especially for TA and CH. My brother, who owned a pool for 30 years, and I did a head to head test; Speed stir vs. Swirl with FC test. We came up 1ppm different (I [speed stir] was lower). Speed stir works. SWCG, Robot, Hairnets, and Speedstir...without them, I'd fill in (backfill) the pool. Pro Tip: When you put the pill in and it just dances around vs. spinning, it means that time to replace the batteries, speed stir is not broken. Pro Tip #2: us alkali batteries, not rechargeable. Speedstir doesn't like them.

Oh, and since no one said it yet, "Welcome to TFP!!!"

 

[Oly]

Test your fill water for TA also. If it is high you will be raising it slowly every time you top off your pool over the summer.

 

[EricT504]

Test your fill water for TA also. If it is high you will be raising it slowly every time you top off your pool over the summer.

I went ahead and tested like you said, fill water TA was 200 so I'll have to keep that in mind when filling. The pieces are coming together.

 

[EricT504]

It is a game changer, especially for TA and CH. My brother, who owned a pool for 30 years, and I did a head to head test; Speed stir vs. Swirl with FC test. We came up 1ppm different (I [speed stir] was lower). Speed stir works. SWCG, Robot, Hairnets, and Speedstir...without them, I'd fill in (backfill) the pool. Pro Tip: When you put the pill in and it just dances around vs. spinning, it means that time to replace the batteries, speed stir is not broken. Pro Tip #2: us alkali batteries, not rechargeable. Speedstir doesn't like them.

Oh, and since no one said it yet, "Welcome to TFP!!!"

Thanks for the welcome, I went ahead and ordered the stir plate, hair nets, and some syringes to get better measurements. I'm quickly growing weary of trying to eyeball 10ml throughout the day The wiping tip when adding reagents is clutch too, i'm now being patient and letting the weight of the drop do its thing. I've been using pool math to bring my PH down in .4 increments today. I've been waiting about 30-45 minutes before retesting after adding MA and I've kept the return jets aimed at the surface making tons of commotion and bubbles. It sounds like its raining by the back door. Any ways, seems like it is going to take awhile to get my TA down but I'm being diligent. I'm noticing every time I add acid to get down to .4 increments I'm always above my target by .1 or .2. I'm thinking the aeration is making that much of a difference.

 

[PoolStored]

The wiping tip when adding reagents is clutch too

You only need to wipe tip on the R-0009. Great job on the progress!

 

[Ngosch]

SWCG, Robot, Hairnets, and Speedstir...without them, I'd fill in (backfill) the pool.

Ok, I have to ask. What are the hairnets for?

 

[PoolStored]

Ok, I have to ask. What are the hairnets for?

Put them in over/in your skimmer! Game changer. Put it in, weigh it down with a rock (make sure the rock is bigger than the skimmer water line...don't want it going down there by accident).

 

[Mdragger88]

You only need to wipe tip on the R-0009. Great job on the progress!

Also the static issue usually corrects itself after doing the wiping thing for a couple of test sessions. No need to do it perpetually though out eternity.

 

[Oly]

Put them in over/in your skimmer! Game changer.

That is a large insect collection. Nice.
Have you identified all the different species that swim in your pool water?