New pool owner - Filter leak

[mike.stocker]

Good evening! First time pool owner here. I recently started diving into this pool stuff and am getting ready to tackle my first SLAM. I opened another thread in the algae channel about that. I started running the pump on filter mode in advance of the SLAM though and noticed my filter is leaking quite a bit. It is an older steel case filter with a fiberglass bottom. It doesn’t even have a pressure gauge but I am guessing it is either sand or DE as it has a side-mounted multiport. Is that a safe assumption? There are no stickers or any identifying information on the filter itself. I posted a couple of photos of the equipment and can provide more if needed.

My question is, should I even run the filter while it is leaking? Should I just wait to do my slam until I can get the filter fixed or replaced? If you would recommend replacing it, any preference on type? I believe my pool is 22-25K gallons and is a vinyl lined in-ground pool. The pump is a HST110.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Let me know if you need any other information about the pool.

 

[mike.stocker]

I forgot to mention that there are bubbles in the pool when the pump is running. Could that be from the leak?

 

[HermanTX]

Have you ever taken the band off and removed the top of the filter? It is most likely a DE filter.
Is there a port on the top to insert a gauge? It is really important to monitor filter pressure.
It may be a simple as lubing the seal that is between the top and bottom half of the filter.
If you are going to do a SLAM, then it is important to know what type of filter because you will need to backwash it to clear the dead algae it will capture. A DE filter requires that you add more DE after backwashing it to protect the grids and to capture debris.

 

[HermanTX]

I forgot to mention that there are bubbles in the pool when the pump is running. Could that be from the leak?

Show a picture of your entire equipment pad from different angles so we know what you have and how it is plumbed.

 

[mike.stocker]

Thanks for the response! I have not attempted to do anything with the filter as of yet. There does not appear to be a port for a gauge unless I am missing something. Attached are some additional photos of where the leaks seem to be and of all of the equipment and plumbing.

 

[HermanTX]

While a small leak is manageable I am more concerned that the filter has a lot of debris, plus no gauge, so you cannot monitor its performance. Sometimes a SLAM will completely clog a filter in 6 hrs. So I think it best to get the filter functioning.
Have you ever backwashed it? How long have you owned the pool and did you have a pool service prior to this?

Does the filter have a drain at the bottom - not sure where exactly it would be but it should be a 1 1/2 inch plug.
Your top of filter shows a threaded plug so that is where a gauge should go.

I would turn off the pump.
Open up the cover of the pump basket to release pressure on the system, if any
Find the filter plug and remove it
Undo the band that is around the filter. It is normally a long threaded bolt so have patience
The top of filter may not release easily if it has not been cleaned in a while. You may need to rock the top a little for it to release for the seal.

 

[mike.stocker]

Good afternoon, thanks for this! I have never backwashed it myself but I did a “pool school” through Leslie’s the other day to learn how to use the equipment. So I think I know how now although I am waiting on a new sight glass as the existing one is super cloudy and basically useless as I can’t get it clean. I think I also know how to vacuum to waste now which should come in handy for the SLAM as the pool is a complete swamp and copper levels are slightly elevated (.4 according to Leslie’s test results). I should also note that I haven’t been running the pump as the leak concerned me. Water was pooling right next to the pump and I wasn’t sure if that could eventually short it out if water got in the wrong nook.

As for service, I have owned the pool a little over a month and only in the last couple of weeks made an attempt to open the pool. I did hire a company to do that. The cover was torn and so it was already a swamp. They brushed, skimmed and vacuumed for a while, shocked the pool, and then sprayed this stuff called Revive on the surface that didn’t seem to do anything. That first attempt cost almost $300 and they wanted to do additional Revive treatments. I opted out of that after learning about this website/forum and the SLAM method. Pool actually turned blue for a bit after the shock too but was green within 24-36 hours after that.

I am not seeing a drain plug but here are some additional photos. Is that nut at the bottom maybe what you’re talking about? Also, I think the filter might be a Pacfab Superflow PF-35 if that helps. For the pressure gauge, can I just install any 1/4” gauge? I found a diagram for that pac fab and it shows an extra few parts for the gauge (bleeder/air tee assembly). Not sure if those are truly necessary. Parts seem to be available though so I don’t mind ordering them if needed. Here’s a link to the diagram.

Pac Fab PF Stainless Sand Parts - INYOPools.com

I am debating on ordering some parts and trying to fix it or just having the whole filter replaced as my home warranty should contribute some towards that based on my last conversation with them. It’ll be at least $1K according to a couple of quotes I have gotten so will be quite a bit out of pocket in the end regardless though.

I also noticed a small leak in the plumbing above the pump strainer basket. Last photo with the red circle. The pump strainer lid was leaking too actually so I replaced the gasket which helped but I think I might need to add some silicone glue to improve the seal a little more. I am hoping if/when I get all of these leaks fixed, there will no longer be bubbles in the pool.

 

[HermanTX]

The 2 pipes going in and out of the filter lead to the multiport valve (MPV). The MPV changes the flow direction from filter to backwash to waste, etc. It appears there is no drain plug and some sand filters don’t have them. You would just normally backwash a sand filter and it may require to change out the sand every 10 years or so. It may just need a good cleaning. At that time you could change out or lube up the seal ring that appears to be leaking.

Sand Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

If you wish to pursue a new filter that is fine. The old stainless filters are very sturdy or go with a cartridge filter. The cartridge filter does not require the MPV. Either new filter will come with a relief valve and gauge on top. A relief valve is important to have as is a gauge.

I think I would try to make the existing sand filter work. Open it up, see how it looks, follow the guidelines in the link above. Purchase a relief valve and gauge. You can always contact a pool service company that will clean the sand filter. Maybe avoid using a pool store company.

The small leak on the exit of your pump would need to cut the pipe and replace. If you plan to replace filter then all of that pipework will most likely need to be changed, either with sand or cartridge filter. If you decide to go with a cartridge filter, I would still pump in a waste line since that is set up already.

All the rubber seals would use lube to help reduce leaks.

 

[mike.stocker]

Thanks Herman! I will dig into the filter and see if I can get it working properly and install a pressure gauge. And I have some magic lube on order. Also, I measured the diameter of the filter and it is 18”. My pool is roughly 26-27K gallons I believe. Is that a sufficient size filter in your opinion? If I went the new filter route, would you recommend a larger filter such as a 24” or 30”?

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks Herman! I will dig into the filter and see if I can get it working properly and install a pressure gauge. And I have some magic lube on order. Also, I measured the diameter of the filter and it is 18”. My pool is roughly 26-27K gallons I believe. Is that a sufficient size filter in your opinion? If I went the new filter route, would you recommend a larger filter such as a 24” or 30”?

The smaller filter does require you to backwash more often. Your pump is suitable for the existing filter as you are not overpowering it. However, since you have a single speed pump you may wish to move to a variable speed pump in the future and then you may find your existing filter too small. Really the only time pump size would come into play would be if you have a very large pump and a very small filter. However, even with a VS pump you would run it at low speed because you do not have a heater or anything that requires a high speed flow rate. That being said, a larger filter is always better. It extends the time between backwash requirements, it can handle higher and multiple pump speeds. So if you think your home warranty can help cover the costs, it may be worth the jump. You would need to measure your space on the pad to ensure it will fit and still allow space to hook up the MPV. At that time, replace the pipe on the exit of the pump. Put a pipe union on the pump so it is easier to hook up

 

[mike.stocker]

Does anyone happen to have a PDF copy of the manual for an old Pac Fab PF35 sand filter?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[ajw22]

Let's see if @1poolman1 has ideas

 

[1poolman1]

Let's see if @1poolman1 has ideas

Have never seen one. Parts are still available (some).

 

[mike.stocker]

Thanks, I have found some parts and am still debating on whether or not to try and repair it or just upgrade to a 300lb sand filter. I am worried mine is a little undersized as it only holds 150lbs of sand. Anyone know if Jay (griffths) is still around? I found an old thread that suggested he may have a copy of the manual.

 

[mike.stocker]

Thanks Herman. I took apart the filter. I think it needs fresh sand and a new lid seal at the very least. The clamp assembly also appears to be missing a “retainer” piece and I can’t find that part anywhere. I guess I could replace the whole clamp but that is around $270. I’m also worried it is undersized for my pool as it only holds 150lbs of sand. Here’s a photo of its current state.

 

[1poolman1]

Thanks, I have found some parts and am still debating on whether or not to try and repair it or just upgrade to a 300lb sand filter. I am worried mine is a little undersized as it only holds 150lbs of sand. Anyone know if Jay (griffths) is still around? I found an old thread that suggested he may have a copy of the manual.

That's a tiny filter for a pool as large as yours, 1.8 sq. ft. of filtration area. The 35 indicates the maximum flow rate in GPM. It also doesn't hold a lot dirt before needing a backwash.
You might consider a cartridge filter of at least 300 sq. ft.

 

[mike.stocker]

That's a tiny filter for a pool as large as yours, 1.8 sq. ft. of filtration area. The 35 indicates the maximum flow rate in GPM. It also doesn't hold a lot dirt before needing a backwash.
You might consider a cartridge filter of at least 300 sq. ft.

Thanks for this! I like that idea although I am tempted to stick with sand as I like the convenience of the multiport and cleaning process. If I were to stick with sand, would you recommend a minimum size for that? A couple of local pool companies looked at my setup and provided quotes but both were for 22” top-mount filters that hold 250lbs of sand. The quotes ranged from $1200 to $1500.

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks Herman. I took apart the filter. I think it needs fresh sand and a new lid seal at the very least. The clamp assembly also appears to be missing a “retainer” piece and I can’t find that part anywhere. I guess I could replace the whole clamp but that is around $270. I’m also worried it is undersized for my pool as it only holds 150lbs of sand. Here’s a photo of its current state.

In the long run a larger filter will serve you better so if your budget is able then spend the money towards that.

 

[mike.stocker]

Hey all, I am looking into replacing my undersized and leaking filter. I believe it is an old Pac Fab PF35. That filter is only 18” and holds 150lbs of sand. I have a 26K gallon pool. My multiport I believe is a Hayward universal sp710xa and my pump is an old 1HP Hayward super pump. I am wondering if I can just drop in a Pentair TR60 (24” model that holds 325lbs of sand and a 60gpm flow rate which I think my pump and multiport can accommodate) and use my existing multiport and plumbing and if it would be relatively easy to do myself. Any thoughts?

Also, I had a couple of local pool companies quote me $1200 to $1500 to replace my filter but they want to install a top mount Hayward and would obviously have to redo the plumbing to accommodate this. I think I’d prefer to stick with a side mount though so I can more easily access the sand in case I ever want to add something like DE to improve its filtering capability or for when I need to clean or replace the sand. So hopefully I could save a little money if I can swap out the filter myself and otherwise use my existing equipment. Just trying to figure out what is feasible. Thanks in advance.

 

[wireform]

If the wallet allows I'd recommend go with a cartridge filter the biggest you can $$ and fit in the spot. The plumbing is secondary as I believe do it once and enjoy forever. By the way the DE addition to a sand filter is via the pool skimmer and has nothing to do with side or top mount mpv.