New Pool Build in Miami

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We now have 3 estimates for relocating the electric lines and adding a sub panel. Bids are so different from each other in terms of the scope of work. Estimate #1: upgrade existing main service panel to make room for pool. Connect upgraded service to pool panel (80-100 amp) by equipment pad. Estimate #2: Leave house service alone. Add separate pool panel (100-120 amp) and have it connect directly to meter. Also add a separate main breaker switch for house service. Estimate #3: Leave house service alone. Switch out current meter for a "combo" meter that will include the sub panel (100-120 amp) for pool and main breaker switches for both house service and pool service. All of these estimates are in the same $$ ballpark so I don't get a feel for what is the best way to go. Estimates are all between $2500-$3200 for this part.

The trenching to relocate the lines pretty much doubles those numbers. Because we need to work around the gas line, the new trench will be long and a final number will only be given once the trenched lineal feet are known. (estimates for the trenching and laying the PVC are betw $3200-$3600). Also, we have to use materials directly from Florida Power & Light and pay a fee to FP&L ($500-$900 depending on size of job). Then, I need to add the cost of the permits which is another several hundred.

Any thoughts on the electrical panel proposals? The last 2 make the most sense to me in terms of leaving the house service alone and just adding the pool panel separately. Anything else I should be considering? Estimate #3 came from an electrical contractor recommended by PB. Estimate #2 EC was recommended by a neighbor. Estimate #1 recommended by a friend.
 
No opinions on my electrical proposals?

While I'm waiting on permits, I'm going through my decking, tile and plaster choices.

What is unique about adding tiles to a pool compared to a bathroom shower? Is there something special about pool tiles - especially those for vertical surfaces like the water line and raised walls? I'm cooking up an idea and wonder if I am truly limited to options found through NPT or Nobile. How different are the tiles from different styles in the same catalog? Could I mix and match outside the groupings they have put together?
 
Hi Jro, nice geometric design. I was wondering what the alcove area was, makes sense to me if one doesn't use the spa much in Miami. I didn't think we would need a spa either in the Houston heat but we have had some chilly days where a spa will be put to good use.

I can't give any feedback on your electrical issues. We haven't encountered any issues with electrical and utilities before our dig. But I can give you some feedback about tiles from my personal experience.

When I was looking at tiles and coping during our design phase I found it helpful to actually visit a NPT or Nobile showroom and not just the PB showroom. The folks at NPT and Nobile can answer many of your questions too. From what I learned many of the tiles they use in kitchen and bathrooms can also be used outdoors. Another place to look would be MasterTile. Personally I didn't find anything in Mastertile that would suit our design. You will find that Nobile and NPT carry the exact same tiles but just call them different things. I experienced this when I was looking at glass tile for my raised wall.


When you ask about mixing and matching the groupings, as long as each tile has a part number or code associated with it you should be able to mix and match tiles. Some tile designs have may have ceramic pieces on the outside and a glass mosaic in the middle that you will not be able to mix and match.

Also your PB shouldn't limit you to what NPT, Nobile or Mastertile has to offer. If you do a search online you will also find other pool tile providers and they will ship out what you need. I did some searches when I was trying to pick out a glass tile for our raised wall. The online guys tend to be a bit pricey so keep that in mind.

If you get the chance try to stop by a showroom in your area. I believe NPT and Nobile both have showrooms in Miami.

Hope this helps>
 
Re: Progress!

Northrider - I searched the website, but I only found that the permit was being processed. Could you send me the link or steps you took to get more details? My PB pulled up information like what you describe, but I don't recall how he did it.

CC - We both love the geometric designs! Thanks for the info on the tiles! I have done some searching online, and you are right - we have found them to be very high end and pricey.

As for my progress -- the permit is "approved, pending submission of missing information." It is related to electrical equipment that PB showed me IS located in the plans and in the permit app. He is going to County Permitting on Monday to clear it up.

Relocating the utilities -- I'm VERY stressed about the coordination of all these different moving parts. Electrician and PB are coordinating their efforts to help minimize my costs and time without electricity. AND, they will also be coordinating with Power company and I need to coordinate with telephone/cable. Once pool permit is approved, EC will submit for electrical permit. And then, in some magical way, power company, EC and PB will manage to put it all together to relocate the underground line, install new panel and also install a new meter. How the cable/telephone will fit into all this, I'm not 100% sure. The EC knows this utility needs to be relocated as well.

The truth is -- now that we are close to permits approved, I'm second guessing every decision we have made. All these new builds with spas have me questioning our decision for simply an "alcove." Will I miss the hot temperature of a spa? Is it too different and not sensible? We are planning on very tropical-style finishings - cobalt blue and Spanish art deco tiles, which are extremely different from the gorgeous travertine and Oklahoma stone I see in all the Texas builds. Those Texas pools are freakin' beautiful!

In a positive light:

the playset was moved to the corner of the yard where PB said to place it... (hey, gotta get excited about ANY progress at this point!)
20140305_105626.jpg~320x480


The coconut palm on top of the electrical transformer came down. Landscaper took tree down to ground level but refused to stump grind the roots b/c he was concerned about hitting the electrical. I can't say I blame him. I hope it's not a problem.

20140305_150611.jpg~320x480
 
Hey Jro. Glad to see things are at least starting to move a little. For us the beginning was very slow as well, just try to keep the end product in sight and we'll all have awesome backyards before we know it. Below is the link to find what's going on with your permit, all you need is a process number.

http://www.miamidade.gov/building/plantrack.asp


If you don't have that number then go here.

http://egvsys.miamidade.gov:1608/WWWSERV/ggvt/bnzaw960.dia

Choose : Process/Permit Number Cross-Reference (Address)
Type in your address in the box at the bottom and you should find the process number.
Go back to the first link and enter it there and it will display all permitting process information pertaining to your application.

Let me know if it worked for you.
 
I'm pulling for you to go with the alcove, but only because I'm curious to see how that would work out (year-round). I'd see that as a real possibility for a very warm climate like yours. I will say that I enjoy sitting on our benches which have returns hitting your back (no spa and no heater). This placement was just coincidental though really.
 
Thanks bmoreswim for the interest. We're going to keep the alcove in. It's hard to justify the heater and spa for such a minimal amount of cold weather. Heck, some people say we never have cold weather down here! I beg to differ - temps in the 60s are cold! ;-)

Thanks Northrider for the directions. Amazing how much detail is provided online about your permit process! Everything is date and time stamped, too. I can see which department took their sweet ole time to review my plans. LOL. Turns out, electrical dept wants more info on the electrical specs for the pool pump. Did you know they do not allow one speed pumps on motors larger than 1 hp? It must be 2 speed or vs. PB has appointment tomorrow to take care of this.
 
Yeah. I thought being able to follow the process was really neat. We are having a v.s pump put in. From what I've read it's not really that cost effective given our electrical rates but my PB included it from day 1, so I just left it at that. Otherwise I think I would have gone with a 2-speed no problem. Glad to see everything is being taken care of. Keep us updated.
 

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Re: Progress!

jro33176 said:
CC - We both love the geometric designs! Thanks for the info on the tiles! I have done some searching online, and you are right - we have found them to be very high end and pricey.

As for my progress -- the permit is "approved, pending submission of missing information." It is related to electrical equipment that PB showed me IS located in the plans and in the permit app. He is going to County Permitting on Monday to clear it up.


The truth is -- now that we are close to permits approved, I'm second guessing every decision we have made. All these new builds with spas have me questioning our decision for simply an "alcove." Will I miss the hot temperature of a spa? Is it too different and not sensible? We are planning on very tropical-style finishings - cobalt blue and Spanish art deco tiles, which are extremely different from the gorgeous travertine and Oklahoma stone I see in all the Texas builds. Those Texas pools are freakin' beautiful!
Click to expand...

Congrats on getting the permits approved! Now the fun begins.

I love the clean lines of geometric designs and glad to see there are more geometric builds on the forum too. I am so Type A and like things to look clean...so this pool design fits my personality :). I look forward to watching your build and Northrider's.

Have you decided if you are going to keep the alcove? I like the alcove idea it's unique and different and would be a great area to congregate. The finishes for the pool sound beautiful and goes with some of the Miami architecture. With your warmer weather I can only imagine all the nice tropical plants you could plant around the pool. Looking forward to the end result.

I think second guessing things during the design phase is a natural process...we went through modifications during our design phase too. Ours was mainly revolved around our back retaining wall/bench. We went back and forth about having a bench, no bench, mini ledge with fountains, wall tile design etc....so it's part of the process. I know it's hard and you want to make sure you make the right decisions because you have to live with it for a while.

In the end it will look beautiful and the kids will love it!
 
Thanks CC for the pep talk! We are keeping the alcove design. I know it will work out just fine. <fingers crossed!>
I love the clean lines of a geometric design, too. We also have benches on either side of our water features wall. I love things to be symmetrical as well!!

Northrider, I haven't given a baby fence or alarms one thought! PB thinks my existing fence will qualify based on its construction. If that doesn't fly, I guess we'll go with alarms and locks on the screen doors. That seems easier to have installed than a baby fence... But, I guess I'll tackle that decision later on.

PB came out to the house the other day to get measurements in the area where the dig machines will pass into the backyard. Also walked around the perimeter of yard to plot out the trenching for the new utility lines... No lines painted by utility companies just yet... And, no electrical permit application submitted yet.
 
Thanks Northrider for checking in with me!! Hello, hello!

I can't believe my thread has managed to stay on page two of this forum!! There was a point where I was so completely frustrated, I couldn't even get on this website without becoming depressed at seeing everyone else's progress. :shaking:

SO, where did I leave off?
Oh yes, relocating the utilities! Turns out, this "magical process" does not magically happen at all! It happens when the homeowner makes tons of phone calls to nudge everyone!!!!!

I called to find out about electrical permit. The permit to relocate electrical utility was applied for. Then, I waited.
I called to find out when the trenching would begin. Someone was dispatched to my house to begin...

First thing he does is, by hand, pull up the cable, internet and phone lines. Apparently, these lines were sitting about 2 inches under my lawn.
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He sets them off to the side.
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Next, jack hammer down 3 feet to locate the lines. (in the process, cut internet, phone and cable to three of my neighbors - oops!)
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My property consists of about 6-12 inches of soil and the rest is solid limestone rock!
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Whew! Go home for the day!!!
 
A few days later, they bring the excavator to dig the trench.
20140408_110559.jpg~320x480


This line runs from the back corner along the fence where my "utility easement" is designated. Now I actually will have a utility in there.
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Turning the corner...
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Running along the house...
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At this point, I call the PB because we originally wanted to run the line along the back fence away from the house and pool area. Turns out, the gas main that runs parallel to the back fence has many lines running off it toward neighbors' houses. The EC did not want to hassle with that. It would require digging by hand along that fence and with all the rock, they decided to find an alternate path.

More limestone...
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- - - Updated - - -

These are the super special PVC pipes that the power company requires you to purchase from them and use...
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Here they are in the trench.
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With a "moat" around the yard, we devise a bridge for the dog.
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She refuses to cross over it and instead jumps across the trench when she feels like it. Oh well. I try to be nice...
 
After this flurry of activity, not much happened. By this time, I realize I need to continually call to "check in" and find out what should be happening next. My PB said they were having trouble reaching the contact at the power company to get an appointment from them. Today, I made phone calls to the power company and finally spoke to someone who said in addition to a permit and a passed inspection, we must submit photos of the trench with a ruler showing it is at the proper depth for the electrical lines. Grrr... Called PB to say we needed photos ASAP. He sent a guy with a fancy camera to my house to take photos and have them sent to power company. Then, I called the power company to confirm email with photos was received and request an appointment. Finally, I have one!! :)

It's really true -- the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

My appointment is for Monday. That's when the "magical" day happens and my electrical lines will be relocated. I HOPE it will go smoothly and without incident so we can move on to the next step -- The Dig that most everyone else starts their pool build threads with!!!!!!! :crazy:
 

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